Page 1 of 3
Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARMS?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:01 am
by _Dr. Shades
In William Hamblin's blog post
here, the first comment reads,
Glenn Thigpen wrote:Maybe its time for the F.A.R.M.S. scholars to become a separate F.A.R.M.S. again.
That comment gained the following reply [emphasis mine]:
Christensen Douglas K. wrote:It not only IS time to reassemble FARMS and its mission statement, but steps have been taken to do just that. Several of the original founders of FARMS are even now working on this project. I invite any and all legitimate LDS scholars who have been a part of FARMS in the past to contact me for further details. [e-mail address redacted]
WOW! Judging by his wording, this sounds like more than just wishful thinking. I had thought that FAIR would become the clearing house for the ilk of what previously constituted the
FARMS Review, but if this is legitimate, then it looks like an independent FARMS will soon resurrect like a phoenix.
Nevertheless--assuming this "intel" is accurate--would it be a form of rebellion against the agreement with President Hinckley to make FARMS an official organ of BYU? Could there be ecclesiastical consequences to such a move, assuming anyone higher than Gerald Bradford had sought to defang and declaw the
Review? And, last but not least, has anyone else heard any rumblings about this purported development?
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:34 am
by _Kishkumen
This is big news. I think that ultimately this is what needed to happen. In my view, making FARMS part of BYU was a mistake, as I thought when it occurred, and I thought DCP was very concerned about it too. The latest developments were the result of that. What Dr. Bradford did was entirely appropriate for an institute running on the campus of a Christian university, but I don't think that BYU professors should lack the opportunity to write as they see fit in some venue as they conduct apologetics and critique writing on Mormonism. Let them do as they please, just not with the implicit backing of the LDS Church itself, especially in cases where members are clearly being attacked.
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:41 pm
by _lulu
Time to gin up the Strengthening the Members Committee?
You've followed this much closer than I have, Kish and know the players better. But my thought was that FARMS moved on campus so the church could control it better. But it looks like it took 10 years to do that. So I guess that goes against my argument. But maybe it would have been even worse if it had remained off campus.
I think the MI mistake was to let DCP do both fund raising and writing. It gave him a much too powerful independent base and created a management nightmare with a person who would be difficult to manage even under the best of circumstances. MI is now paying for that management mistake.
There was a time when BYU professors were forbidden from participating in Sunstone after the garment flap. Do you think BYU would do this against a new off campus organization that didn't fit with the church's vision of the Mormon Moment? Of course, a lot of FARMS writers weren't BYU profs but it would still send a powerful signal as it did about Sunstone and Sunstone has never been the same.
The church has a lot of formal and informal control methods, from signaling disaproval as it did with Sunstone, to STMC suggested bishop interviews, to senior missions and temple president calls.
I'm reminded of how Eugene England severely diss'ed the Strengthening the Members Committee when he first learned of it, not realizing that it was staffed by GA's. When he learned that, he immediately and abjectly apologized all over the place for speaking ill of the Lord's anointed. I don't see this happening with DCP.
Follow the money.
It always delights me when the church gets out flanked on the right, whether immigration reform, gun control and now this.
It will say alot about the church and the individuals involved as this plays out. I guess I have enough residual (and until this moment unrecognized) bitterness and perhaps lack of character that I'm having a great time with this.
I suppose the high road would be to worry more about those MI has injured than chuckle about DCP.
lulu - wishing coquettes for all
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:19 pm
by _Kishkumen
You raise a number of interesting questions, lulu. I am on my phone, so I can't respond at length. Your position assumes that the point of bringing FARMS into BYU was largely one of control. I am not sure. I don't doubt that there may have been an element of that, but I think the idea of supporting what they thought was a worthy effort was also there. So, did this move finally complete a long-planned objective? I doubt it.
Academics are politically tough. At BYU they get intermingled with Church concerns. As Bob Crockett pointed out over at MDDB, it is amazing that Daniel had such a long run and it is a real tribute to him that he did, no matter what anyone else thinks.
I think a return to an independent FARMS is better for all concerned. The only problem I can see is that work for this organization will not figure into one's BYU career in any way, meaning that there would be no course releases for doing it, and those things would not be considered in measuring one's scholarship or other work. (I never bought the idea that Daniel was not in some sense a paid apologist.)
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:43 pm
by _lulu
Kishkumen wrote: The only problem I can see is that work for this organization will not figure into one's BYU career in any way, meaning that there would be no course releases for doing it, and those things would not be considered in measuring one's scholarship or other work.
That's a solid point and shows how your familiarity with the academy gives you practical insight that I lack.
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:38 pm
by _harmony
Kishkumen wrote:I think a return to an independent FARMS is better for all concerned. The only problem I can see is that work for this organization will not figure into one's BYU career in any way, meaning that there would be no course releases for doing it, and those things would not be considered in measuring one's scholarship or other work. (I never bought the idea that Daniel was not in some sense a paid apologist.)
But then who will pay for all the trips and conferences? Will there still be a Review? Who will pay to publish it? Who will pay the office staff? Will there even be an office with paid staff? Who will pay for paper and supplies, computers and internet access, etc?
And who will have the time necessary to do this as a volunteer? Will the church view this as these people thumbing their noses at the church?
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:03 pm
by _Kishkumen
harmony wrote:But then who will pay for all the trips and conferences? Will there still be a Review? Who will pay to publish it? Who will pay the office staff? Will there even be an office with paid staff? Who will pay for paper and supplies, computers and internet access, etc?
It will be a foundation, funded by contributions and the sales of its publications. It will have minimal staff, equipment, and rented office space. Since profs have time off in the summers, Peterson may still lead private tours to pump donors for more cash.
And who will have the time necessary to do this as a volunteer? Will the church view this as these people thumbing their noses at the church?
They did it before; they'll do it again. Enough GAs support it to make this safe. The real issue was how closely the Church wanted to be officially associated with these activities. This is not a repudiation of the activities per se.
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:28 pm
by _lostindc
It was a matter of time before the OMIDs broke off. The animosity had been building and escalated with the Will Schyrver secret decoder ring piece and the Dehlin hit piece. The next phase for the OMIDs will be far more hostile. Imagine the damage a Louis Midgley dreams to deliver outside of BYU controls. Imagine a Will Shyrver without some sort of formal hierarchy providing oversight.
In the end, the biggest victims will be those such a Dehlin that will be the target of OMIDs. Likewise, current members with any inquiries or doubts will be mowed over by OMIDs at a much greater rate. I predict a very hostile environment created by the OMIDs.
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:11 pm
by _Uther
Why do I get a lot of manifesto vibes in regards to a ressurected farms?
Maby they will trade word Foundation with Fundamentals?
Re: Evidence that OMIDs are resurrecting an independent FARM
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:04 pm
by _Stormy Waters
lostindc wrote:In the end, the biggest victims will be those such a Dehlin that will be the target of OMIDs. Likewise, current members with any inquiries or doubts will be mowed over by OMIDs at a much greater rate. I predict a very hostile environment created by the OMIDs.
If they do break off, I'm sure one of their first actions will be to publish the piece on John Dehlin. I'd bet they go after Johanna Brooks in short order too. It will be interesting to see if the church allows the OMIDs to attack other members of the church.