Apologetic Bizarro World

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_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Kishkumen »

Picture in your mind the following scenario:

A BYU professor writes a controversial article on a sensitive subject. His superior calls him in to tell him not to publish the piece because of the provocative and sensitive nature of the topic. Let's say it is Adam-God, or polygamy. The professor asks his chairman, "Have you even read my article?" The chairman replies, "No, but one of the Twelve contacted me and told me to instruct you not to publish this article. The subject matter is too sensitive, and it may drive people away from the Church." The professor, dumbfounded by the unjust and unscholarly way his good work has been summarily dismissed without any serious engagement, returns to his office to write his letter of resignation.

Imagine, now, how critics and apologists would likely react to this story. Critics would be outraged that this scholar, working at a university, and doing honest historical scholarship, should be muzzled by an apostle, who probably hadn't even read his work. The critics would conclude that the apostle was trying to hide the truth, because "not all truth is useful." The apologists would counter that the apostle is right, and that the professor as a good member of the LDS faith has a duty not to publish work that could harm the testimonies of members and drive them out of the Church.

That is a scenario we can easily understand.

And then there is the scenario unfolding on MDDB, wherein an apologist who is a BYU professor is frothing at the mouth, ranting in utter disbelief, that Greg Smith's piece on John Dehlin, which was suppressed on the orders of an apostle, WAS NOT EVEN READ. The horror! The shock! The affront to the scholarly enterprise!

Bill Hamblin wrote:NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSED THE PUBLICATION HAD ACTUALLY READ THE PAPER!!!!
Let me repeat this for clarification purposes:
NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSED THE PUBLICATION HAD ACTUALLY READ THE PAPER!!!! Not a single one.

And, indeed, not a single one has read it to this day. Bradford expressly told Dan he did not want to read the article.


Now the shoe is on the other foot, my friends. Now an apostle has suppressed an apologetic article, likely because he feared it would do more harm to struggling members than good. For those teetering on the edge of apostasy, who have found in the Mormon Stories community some place where they were not treated like villains, but like suffering human beings, to learn that the person who made that possible was being defamed in print by the Church's leading apologists, the same men whom they believe had failed to answer their questions... well, who is to say that they would not have thrown in the towel on the LDS Church altogether, or that families would have fallen into bitter arguments and further division over the treatment doled out to Dehlin?

Finding themselves in this unusual position, these apologists do not consider that it was an apostle that told them to desist. No, they are worried about the truth with a capital "T" and how it is terrible to suppress it, especially when it has not been given proper and due intellectual consideration. This time an apostle judged what they believed to be true not to be useful to the Church's mission, and it is eating them up.

All I can say, good sirs, is, whether you ever acknowledge it or not, welcome to Mike Quinn's world.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_moksha
_Emeritus
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Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _moksha »

So if the administrator felt that a long winded attack piece, in what should be a scholarly journal, was not worth reading since it was an attack piece and the top brass wanted a firm action against it, he still had an obligation to read it? Too bad as an administrator he did not have graduate students available to do the reading for him.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Blixa
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Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Blixa »

Please, Kish, I can't keep up with this pearl-clutching pile up. My sides are still aching over the phrase "apostate message board."
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Darth J
_Emeritus
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Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Darth J »

Blixa wrote:Please, Kish, I can't keep up with this pearl-clutching pile up. My sides are still aching over the phrase "apostate message board."


We long ago deviated from the orthodox message boards.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Kishkumen »

Blixa wrote:Please, Kish, I can't keep up with this pearl-clutching pile up. My sides are still aching over the phrase "apostate message board."


Stak, you apostate! (What did you go apostate from again?)
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Kishkumen »

moksha wrote:So if the administrator felt that a long winded attack piece, in what should be a scholarly journal, was not worth reading since it was an attack piece and the top brass wanted a firm action against it, he still had an obligation to read it? Too bad as an administrator he did not have graduate students available to do the reading for him.


I am sure that every last word of that 100+ pages was both masterfully written and utterly indispensable. Rumor has it that Will plans to print up the article and wallpaper his bedroom with it. Mrs. Schryver is ecstatic.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Ceeboo
_Emeritus
Posts: 7625
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Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Ceeboo »

Darth J wrote:
Blixa wrote:Please, Kish, I can't keep up with this pearl-clutching pile up. My sides are still aching over the phrase "apostate message board."


We long ago deviated from the orthodox message boards.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I just adore all of you Mormons, X-Mormons, and Want-to-be-Mormons! :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Kishkumen »

Darth J wrote:We long ago deviated from the orthodox message boards.


It must be something in the code.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _sock puppet »

Kishkumen wrote:Picture in your mind the following scenario:

A BYU professor writes a controversial article on a sensitive subject. His superior calls him in to tell him not to publish the piece because of the provocative and sensitive nature of the topic. Let's say it is Adam-God, or polygamy. The professor asks his chairman, "Have you even read my article?" The chairman replies, "No, but one of the Twelve contacted me and told me to instruct you not to publish this article. The subject matter is too sensitive, and it may drive people away from the Church." The professor, dumbfounded by the unjust and unscholarly way his good work has been summarily dismissed without any serious engagement, returns to his office to write his letter of resignation.

Imagine, now, how critics and apologists would likely react to this story. Critics would be outraged that this scholar, working at a university, and doing honest historical scholarship, should be muzzled by an apostle, who probably hadn't even read his work. The critics would conclude that the apostle was trying to hide the truth, because "not all truth is useful." The apologists would counter that the apostle is right, and that the professor as a good member of the LDS faith has a duty not to publish work that could harm the testimonies of members and drive them out of the Church.

That is a scenario we can easily understand.

And then there is the scenario unfolding on MDDB, wherein an apologist who is a BYU professor is frothing at the mouth, ranting in utter disbelief, that Greg Smith's piece on John Dehlin, which was suppressed on the orders of an apostle, WAS NOT EVEN READ. The horror! The shock! The affront to the scholarly enterprise!

Bill Hamblin wrote:NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSED THE PUBLICATION HAD ACTUALLY READ THE PAPER!!!!
Let me repeat this for clarification purposes:
NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSED THE PUBLICATION HAD ACTUALLY READ THE PAPER!!!! Not a single one.

And, indeed, not a single one has read it to this day. Bradford expressly told Dan he did not want to read the article.


Now the shoe is on the other foot, my friends. Now an apostle has suppressed an apologetic article, likely because he feared it would do more harm to struggling members than good. For those teetering on the edge of apostasy, who have found in the Mormon Stories community some place where they were not treated like villains, but like suffering human beings, to learn that the person who made that possible was being defamed in print by the Church's leading apologists, the same men whom they believe had failed to answer their questions... well, who is to say that they would not have thrown in the towel on the LDS Church altogether, or that families would have fallen into bitter arguments and further division over the treatment doled out to Dehlin?

Finding themselves in this unusual position, these apologists do not consider that it was an apostle that told them to desist. No, they are worried about the truth with a capital "T" and how it is terrible to suppress it, especially when it has not been given proper and due intellectual consideration. This time an apostle judged what they believed to be true not to be useful to the Church's mission, and it is eating them up.

All I can say, good sirs, is, whether you ever acknowledge it or not, welcome to Mike Quinn's world.

Reverend, eloquent but wordy. You could have just said, "Daniel, ain't Karma a bitch?"
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Apologetic Bizarro World

Post by _Kishkumen »

sock puppet wrote:Reverend, eloquent but wordy. You could have just said, "Daniel, ain't Karma a bitch?"


I suppose so, except that it is more the case that the system he has defended worked against him in this instance, and yet none of them can see that, so they make up other explanations.

There are some nuances in that which "ain't karma a bitch" doesn't quite capture.

But you make a good point. It is wordy.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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