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Joe Geisner wrote:http://signaturebooks.com/2012/06/mormon-books-win-awards/

Cool! Thanks for sharing the news!

Joe Geisner wrote:http://signaturebooks.com/2012/06/mormon-books-win-awards/

Anyone read John S. Dinger's, The Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes?

I'm going to buy it because I know it has transcript testimony from my great...grandma who married Joseph after Joseph sent my great...grandpa on a mission.
Wondering if there a lot of other hidden gems?

Here is the amazon link if anyone wants to order it.


http://www.amazon.com/Nauvoo-City-High-Council-Minutes/dp/1560852143/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341091998&sr=8-1&keywords=John+S.+Dinger

Willy Law wrote:Anyone read John S. Dinger's, The Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes?

I'm going to buy it because I know it has transcript testimony from my great...grandma who married Joseph after Joseph sent my great...grandpa on a mission.
Wondering if there a lot of other hidden gems?

Here is the amazon link if anyone wants to order it.

Willy,

Who is you ancestor? Quite a few people are doing research on Smith's wives. I have one friend who has found a few more married women that Smith jumped in the sack with. "It's good to be king!"

I have the book and read much of it. John Dinger does an excellent job with not being allowed to see the minutes in the CHL.

Their is a huge story happening with this book. Robin Jensen is claiming that Dinger should have turned over his transcription and let the CHL personnel correct his transcription. John should have done this even though the CHL would not and currently does not allow scholars access to the minutes? What planet is Robin living on?

This upcoming review by Jensen (could it have been written by committee?) seems to be nothing more than an attack on Signature Books and its authors/editors.

Who needs the Maxwell Institute when you have the apologist in SLC, a.k.a. the Joseph Smith Papers Project? These guys can no longer claim to be scholars with this kind of crap.

Joe Geisner wrote:
Willy,

Who is you ancestor? .

My great whatever grandmother is Esther Dutcher Smith (Mrs. Albert Smith). It appears that she may have been married to Joseph soon after Joseph sent my grandfather, Albert Smith, on a mission. Esther had a child named, oddly enough, Joseph Smith that could possibly have been fathered by Albert right after he returned from his mission but the window is very tight. Given the timing and the boy's name it seems possible this a child of the Joseph Smith.
I emailed Todd Compton to see what information he had on my grandmother and the possibility that she was a plural wife of Joseph Smith. According to Todd she was one of the few that had an early proxy sealing to Joseph with her husband Albert standing proxy. Todd said "Early proxy marriages are actually good indicative evidence, but not conclusive. " He said that their was not enough proof of a sealing while Joseph was alive to list her as a plural wife but that he would classify her as a possible plural wife.
He did give me the reference which I'm excited to see in context in the book from the Navoo high council minutes. Here is what Todd emailed me:

Here's something I found that shows Esther may have been involved in Nauvoo polygamy, though not with Joseph. Nauvoo High Counc Minutes, Sept. 4, 1842: "Esther Smith gave evidence that defendant [Gustavius Hills] told her it was lawful for people to hold illicit intercourse if they only held their peace & that ["the time would", crossed out.] it was agreeable to the practice of some of the leading men or heads of the Church. It took place the thursday before the Choir was dismissed in the upper part of Town near the Bluff at 9 O'clock in the evening, she was going home _ he offered & went to accompany her and this took place upon the way, she further testified that Mary Clift joined the Choir at Br Joseph Smiths." Hills was disfellowshipped.

Whatever the case it seems quite certain that Esther and her oldest child Azariah were convinced that Esther was sealed to Joseph sometime in early 1843. Her temple records indicate that her and all five children are sealed to Joseph and that she did not desire to be sealed to her husband (my grandfather) only to Joseph.

Willy Law wrote:My great whatever grandmother is Esther Dutcher Smith (Mrs. Albert Smith). It appears that she may have been married to Joseph soon after Joseph sent my grandfather, Albert Smith, on a mission. Esther had a child named, oddly enough, Joseph Smith that could possibly have been fathered by Albert right after he returned from his mission but the window is very tight. Given the timing and the boy's name it seems possible this a child of the Joseph Smith.
I emailed Todd Compton to see what information he had on my grandmother and the possibility that she was a plural wife of Joseph Smith. According to Todd she was one of the few that had an early proxy sealing to Joseph with her husband Albert standing proxy. Todd said "Early proxy marriages are actually good indicative evidence, but not conclusive. " He said that their was not enough proof of a sealing while Joseph was alive to list her as a plural wife but that he would classify her as a possible plural wife.
He did give me the reference which I'm excited to see in context in the book from the Navoo high council minutes.
Whatever the case it seems quite certain that Esther and her oldest child Azariah were convinced that Esther was sealed to Joseph sometime in early 1843. Her temple records indicate that her and all five children are sealed to Joseph and that she did not desire to be sealed to her husband (my grandfather) only to Joseph.

What a small world! You are related to my good friend; and great western and Mormon historian, David Bigler. This is very cool! But then the Mormon world is very small.

Willy, this is one of the wives I was thinking of. And there is substantial evidence for the marriage with Joseph Smith. I have a letter from Daniel Wells to Joseph F. Smith about the marriage.

That is very cool. I will send you a PM with my email, if you don't mind I would love to see a copy of that letter. If you send me your email I can email you copies of Esther's temple records if you or David don't already have them. I also have a copy of Albert's journal.

Joe Geisner wrote:Quite a few people are doing research on Smith's wives. I have one friend who has found a few more married women that Smith jumped in the sack with. "It's good to be king!"

Will this research be published? The only one I'm aware of that Smith has been conclusively shown to have had sex with is the Sessions woman. It would be nice to nail down some more.

dblagent007 wrote:Will this research be published? The only one I'm aware of that Smith has been conclusively shown to have had sex with is the Sessions woman. It would be nice to nail down some more.

007,

I am hoping. I understand that contracts have been signed and books are to be published on the happenings of Nauvoo.

The reality is that proving Smith had sex with anyone outside Emma (the converse is equally true, though Brian Hales and Don Bradley want you to think otherwise) is a very difficult thing since Smith was in a constant state of denial on the subject. It also seems he was very careful to cover his tracks.

The idea that Smith told the women that they were no longer in a marriage and then he could have sex with them, and then after get back with their husband is pure nonsense. Smith was King of the World. He could do what ever he wanted.

The idea that Smith never had sex with fourteen and sixteen year old girls is equal nonsense.

Why would he have Joseph Kingsbury marry Sara Ann Whitney in a fake marriage?

Why did Helen Mar Kimball tell her mother? “I will never be sealed to my Father, (meaning as a wife) and would never have been sealed (married) to Joseph, had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it. I say again, I will never be sealed to my Father; no, will sooner be damned and go to hell, if I must. Neither will I be sealed to Brigham Young.”

Or Smith telling her, “If you will take this step, it will insure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.”

Very messy stuff.

Joe, my comment was only in reference to polyandrous marriages. I think we have ample evidence that Joseph Smith had sex with at least a third of his wives. However, when it comes to the polyandrous marriages, the only one we have good evidence for is the Sessions woman who told her daughter Joseph Smith was her father. It would be nice to have additional evidence showing that Joseph Smith consummated more of his polyandrous marriages.