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If anyone is really interested in whether or not the narrative constructed by John Dehlin's sycophants in their defense of him from his critics within the apologetic community, tends toward fact or revisionist fantasy, one need only sit through this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQJc5SxnVs

John Dehlin, based upon this alone, can be understood as nothing other than fully apostate from the Church and the gospel it teaches and extends to the world.

This video is a cornucopia of slovenly, facile argument, disingenuity, apparent ignorance of basic LDS doctrine, unfamiliarity with two decades of apologetic scholarship, and resuscitations of a number of long discredited and debunked anti-Mormon myths, some of which can be traced back to the 19th century to the most lurid and vacuous anti-Mormon bigots of that age.

So far, most of Dehlin's claims and concerns are traditional and longstanding, with only his surgery, Oprahfied approach being a little different than most apostate critics before him.

Actually, he looks much less a wolf in sheep's clothing in this video than Wile E. Coyote in an ill-fitting ACME sheep costume and a pair of rocket-assisted roller skates.

That's 4 1/2 years old. Hasn't it been established that his methods and purposes have changed significantly since then? Do you have anything newer?

Also, how many John Dehlin threads to you need at one time?

And your post completely exemplifies the worst stereotypes of an LDS apologist. Nonstop ad hominem attacks, claim that these issues are not new and thus unimportant, and proclaim the arguments debunked without actually making any counterargument.

So come on, Droopy, show us why he's wrong. Remember, this is the apostate board, we're not just going to take your word for it.

I did like the Wile E. Coyote reference, though.

Why all the concern over an insignificant guy named John Dehlin?

Droopy your jealousy is really showing.

It appears Droopy has an obsession with Dehlin. Maybe some jealousy? Very strange indeed. Why not just chill and accept the obvious evidence that whatever John Dehlin is doing, he's reaching and appealing to many more than the message missionaries are teaching. Dehlin's numbers are rapidly growing while baptism numbers are shrinking.

That seems to be driving Droopy to post numerous threads on the subject.

sansfoy wrote:That's 4 1/2 years old. Hasn't it been established that his methods and purposes have changed significantly since then? Do you have anything newer?

Also, how many John Dehlin threads to you need at one time?

No, nothing has been established along those lines, to my knowledge. Now, you may go to the Mormonstories website, where you will see that this 4 1/2 year old, irrelevant webcast is the first webcast one encounters on the Mormonstories podcast page episode list:

http://mormonstories.org/highlights/

Cylon wrote:And your post completely exemplifies the worst stereotypes of an LDS apologist. Nonstop ad hominem attacks,

I see no ad hominem attacks here, only strongly worded critique of his argument style and the contents of his claims. I'm just calling it as I see it.

claim that these issues are not new and thus unimportant,

Some have been debunked since the 19th century. Most others, during the 20th. Dehlin is either very desperate, or not very well read.

and proclaim the arguments debunked without actually making any counterargument.

I can't make any counter-argument. That requires long, detailed, wordy posts, and that's disallowed in the Trailerpark.

So come on, Droopy, show us why he's wrong.

I have been, but no one's actually engaged those arguments in any intellectually substantive way as of yet.

I did like the Wile E. Coyote reference, though.

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Thanks.

My biggest criticism is that the audio quality of that recording is quite poor. I hope he has upgraded his equipment since then.

Droopy wrote:

Some have been debunked since the 19th century. Most others, during the 20th. Dehlin is either very desperate, or not very well read.

Classic Droopy defense. Simply say the criticisms have been answered, debunked, etc. No bother to list out what things you think are items that have been debunked. Put up or shut up Droopy. You claim is nonesense.

Droopy wrote:I can't make any counter-argument. That requires long, detailed, wordy posts, and that's disallowed in the Trailerpark.

Patently false. Not much is disallowed here. You can make any counter argument you want. Just please, for the readers sake cut down on the fog index. You use far to many words and no, it is not because you are smart and others are junior high school readers. You just use numerous unecessary words that make reading you tedious.

I have been, but no one's actually engaged those arguments in any intellectually substantive way as of yet.

Basically your argument is Dehlin is a insidous evil apostate that has an agenda to lead people out of the Church and to modify the Church into an agenda that is more liberal and tolerable.

I have responded numerous times that Dehlin does not have an agenda to lead people out of the church but rather to support people wherever they are at.

That he may want/wish the Church were more tolerable of diversity I think I would agree with. But I don't think he has an agenda to make the church change.

Classic Droopy defense. Simply say the criticisms have been answered, debunked, etc. No bother to list out what things you think are items that have been debunked. Put up or shut up Droopy. You claim is nonesense.

That's classic LDS apologetic defense, but droopy takes it to a new level. He uses this on just about every issue out there. He seems to think that as long as someone at FAIR or FARMS has tried to "address" an issue, then that is all that needs to be said. He still thinks the Book of Abraham issues have been "debunked" and he likes to use outdated FARMS materials that have long since been abandoned!