Peterson, Hamblin, Schryver Online Antics: Request for Help

[_just me]

Calling a women that you've repeatedly demeaned in a sexist way "baby" while telling her that she's in over her head, then telling her to instead grab her pom poms and cheer for her boys after insulting her looks is most certainly misogynist. Just because it's not a forced clitorectomy doesn't mean it isn't misogynist. It's a difference of degree. Just because slapping woman in the workplace on the ass isn't the same thing as demanding sex for a promotion doesn't mean both aren't sexual harassment. It's a disservice to women (and men) to ignore sexist behavior simply because one can always point to more serious examples. Hey guys, it's not like Will is a ringleader in the white slave trade! Yeah, I guess there's that.

Took the words right outta my keyboard!

[_EAllusion]

By the way, dismissing women as bitches for traits that get a pass in men is about as classic of an example of widespread, insidious misogyny as there is. It's especially insidious because it is one of those things that enjoys widespread buy-in from women too. It constrains gender roles lest you be a bitch.

[_Blixa]

Calling a women that you've repeatedly demeaned in a sexist way "baby" while telling her that she's in over her head, then telling her to instead grab her pom poms and cheer for her boys after insulting her looks is most certainly misogynist. Just because it's not a forced clitorectomy doesn't mean it isn't misogynist. It's a difference of degree. Just because slapping woman in the workplace on the ass isn't the same thing as demanding sex for a promotion doesn't mean both aren't sexual harassment. It's a disservice to women (and men) to ignore sexist behavior simply because one can always point to more serious examples. Hey guys, it's not like Will is a ringleader in the white slave trade! Yeah, I guess there's that.

Took the words right outta my keyboard!

Exactly.

Also, sleazy "compliments" are not compliments. They are sleaze. They are leering, jeering, patronizing and objectifying.

[_Garbo]

by the way, joking about breast reduction was obnoxious, but hardly his worst behavior. EA gave better examples of his worst behavior, in which he dismissed the comments of female posters altogether and deliberately made sexist remarks while doing so to provoke anger, or in which he insulted women in a sexualized manner.

I'm really on the fence about his misogyny. I actually lived with a real misogynist, so I understand the reluctance to so label Will based simply on this evidence. He's a sexist pig who is a bad example for his religion, no doubt, and that's enough for me to point to his obvious bad behavior.

Look, I've seen sexist pigs. There is a Pakistani-American professor I come in contact with on an almost daily basis. He is a sexist pig. I do NOT want to come across as excusing "sexist pig" behavior. But there's a HUGE difference between this professor I know and the kinds of things my brothers do. HUGE.

You think Will telling you to grab your pompoms is an example of a "sexist pig"?

Really?

If so, then your definition of the term is very much different than mine. If you're bothered by Will's pompom and breast jokes, then I could tell you things that would probably give you a heart attack. I think you need to get out in the real world, because there is a real war against misogyny that needs to be fought and won, but it won't be won by women who are going to take offense over innocuous jokes about breasts and pompoms.

[_Chap]

I don't really care very much how Schryver feels about women. I don't really care, for instance, whether he is, in the proper sense of the word, a misogynist (a "woman-hater").

But I do care how he behaves towards women. And his behavior on this board is so discourteous and disrespectful to women that if he spoke to my wife or daughter in the same way he posts here, he would get from me a reaction that would cause him to leave the building quite rapidly.

I am not really a very physically threatening person, but I think Schryver is likely to be such a coward that the sight of my anger might well make him mess his pants.

Different people may of course have different standards.

Edited to add:

Garbo - I'm sorry to hear about your brothers. Have you noticed that other women's brothers often don't behave like that?

[_beastie]

Look, I've seen sexist pigs. There is a Pakistani-American professor I come in contact with on an almost daily basis. He is a sexist pig. I do NOT want to come across as excusing "sexist pig" behavior. But there's a HUGE difference between this professor I know and the kinds of things my brothers do. HUGE.

You think Will telling you to grab your pompoms is an example of a "sexist pig"?

Really?

If so, then your definition of the term is very much different than mine. If you're bothered by Will's pompom and breast jokes, then I could tell you things that would probably give you a heart attack. I think you need to get out in the real world, because there is a real war against misogyny that needs to be fought and won, but it won't be won by women who are going to take offense over innocuous jokes about breasts and pompoms.

Go read the thread. There was nothing about my comments that warranted a complete dismissal. He was willing to interact with and at least attempt to respond substantively on the topic with the males on the thread, but not me. I needed to go grab my pom-poms. Mind you, Will had shown his ignorance about evolution on the thread, anyway. but that is besides the point.

Yeah, I think a man who tries to insult a woman by telling her she's so old no one would want to see her naked - in a conversation that had NOTHING to do with that topic - or insulting another women by telling her she's old and wrinkled and shouldn't wear a tank-top - again, in a conversation that had NOTHING to do with that topic - qualifies as a sexist pig.

I think EA already adequately responded to your objections, frankly. Yeah, Will is probably not outright beating and raping women or mutilating their genitals. That doesn't mean he's not a sexist pig in his own right.

[_Garbo]

I knew I shouldn't have said anything about this. But it's kind of been bothering me for a long time. I think many of you women are doing the cause of feminism a real disservice. But I don't want to become the target of a message board gang beating, so I think I'll back out of this discussion right here and now.

I can, however, understand (per the OP) why there might be people outside of this message board who have examined MsJack's Mormon Apologetics and Misogyny thread and come away from it wondering "where's the beef"?

But maybe I've just been jaded on account of growing up the only girl in a family of boys.

[_Chap]

...

But maybe I've just been jaded on account of growing up the only girl in a family of boys.

Please excuse my asking - but did your father hear the way your brothers spoke about women in your presence? If so, did he make any comment?

[_beastie]

I knew I shouldn't have said anything about this. But it's kind of been bothering me for a long time. I think many of you women are doing the cause of feminism a real disservice. But I don't want to become the target of a message board gang beating, so I think I'll back out of this discussion right here and now.

I can, however, understand (per the OP) why there might be people outside of this message board who have examined MsJack's Mormon Apologetics and Misogyny thread and come away from it wondering "where's the beef"?

But maybe I've just been jaded on account of growing up the only girl in a family of boys.

I don't think you'll be the target of a message board beating.

The OP simply asked for evidence of his online offensive behavior. I understand you don't want to call his behavior misogynist or even sexist. Do you concede that it is offensive?

[_Garbo]

...

But maybe I've just been jaded on account of growing up the only girl in a family of boys.

Please excuse my asking - but did your father hear the way your brothers spoke about women in your presence? If so, did he make any comment?

Let's just let this be my parting comment on this thread, and maybe from this board altogether, since I'm absolutely disgusted by the way anyone who says anything contrary to the "received wisdom" is immediately targeted for a gang beating.

One of the primary reasons I am divorced now is because my ex was so unbelievably uptight about everything to do with sex. No, my father would not have considered my brothers watching the Kate Upton video some kind of porno party. But my ex-husband would have put his hands over his eyes and probably have gone out to the car and started listening to a Mormon Tabernacle Choir CD in order to "get the spirit back".