Apologetics becoming big business

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Monthly newsletter. Pay attention to the last remarks

================================================================
June THE FAIR JOURNAL 2012
The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research
================================================================

LATIN - apologeticus GREEK - apologetikos
Apologetics: "The branch of theology that is concerned with
defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines" (The American
Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition, Houghton
Mifflin Company, 2009).


ABOUT FAIR
-----------------------------------
FAIR is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization and relies on donations to
accomplish its work. If you are in the United States, your donation
is tax deductible. All contributions are greatly appreciated. To
make a donation please click on the following link.

http://bookstore.fairlds.org/category.p ... ategory=47

FAIR can be contacted through the internet or the U.S. Postal
Service.

http://www.fairlds.org/contact.php

FAIR
PO Box 491677
Redding, CA 96049-1677

If you like the Journal please do the following:


1) Share it with your friends

2) Blog or Facebook about it

3) Encourage others to sign up

4) Make a donation

5) Buy something from the Bookstore



JOURNAL CONTENTS
-----------------------------------
* Message from the President
* Conference Streaming
* Become a FAIR Conference Sponsor
* We Need Your Help
* FAIR Wiki Articles
* Mormon Voices
* Mormon Scholars Testify
* FAIR Blog
* Award Winning FAIR Podcasts
* FAIR YouTube
* FAIR LDS Bookstore
* Donating to FAIR
* FAIR Study Aids
* FAIR's 'Front Page'
* Important Links
* Ask the Apologist
* Copyright Notice and Disclaimer


MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT
-----------------------------------
We are pleased to announce John Sorenson as a speaker at this year's
FAIR conference. He is coming out with a new book entitled Mormon's
Codex and has new information to share with us about the Book of
Mormon.

It is the time to sign up for the FAIR conference. Our conference
registrations are 100% ahead of last year, and there is the very
real possibility of selling out. Please buy your tickets today so
you can be sure to get a seat.

As a reminder, here is our list of speakers (subject to change):

* Joshua Johanson: Navigating the Labyrinth Surrounding
Homosexual Desire

* John Sorenson: Reading Mormon's Codex

* Neylan McBaine: To Do the Business of the Church: A Cooperative
Paradigm for Examining Gendered Participation Within Church
Organizational Structure

* Royal Skousen: Do We Need to Make Changes to the Book of Mormon
Text?

* Darius Gray: No Johnny-Come-Lately: The 182-Year-Long BLACK
Mormon Moment

* Brian C. Hales: Joseph Smith's Sexual Polyandry and the
Emperor's New Clothes: On Closer Inspection, What Do We Find?

* Ugo Perego: Book of Mormon Genetics: A Reappraisal

* Jack Welch: Forty-five Years of Chiasmus Conversations,
Criteria, and Creativity: What Chiasmus Proves and Does Not
Prove

* Brant Gardner: From the East to the West: The Problem of
Directions in the Book of Mormon

* John Gee: Book of Abraham, I Presume

* Rosemary Avance: Seeing the Light: Parallels in Mormon
Conversion and De-conversion Stories

* Don Bradley: Piercing the Veil: Temple Worship in the Lost 116
Pages

* Hartt Wixam" Perception and Reality: Then and Now

* Dan Peterson: Of 'Mormon Studies' and Apologetics

Here is where you find more information and purchase your tickets
(scroll to the bottom of the page to purchase tickets):

http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences ... ce/conf12a

Find a friend and come see us at the conference. You won't want to
miss this!

--Scott Gordon
President of FAIR


CONFERENCE STREAMING
-----------------------------------
This year we are providing Conference streaming for your Windows,
Android, Apple, and even Roku devices. Here is a way for you to have
your own FAIR Conference in your home. Hook it up to your big-screen
TV and invite over your friends for a FAIR Conference event. We have
updated our technology on this, so the price for streaming the
conference into your home, or two your phones, computers or tablets
is $15 for each day or $25 for both days. When you sign up, in the
comments section please mention which device or devices you are
planning on using (Roku, iphone, ipad, Android tablet, etc.)

Sign up for the two days here:

http://bookstore.fairlds.org/product.ph ... oduct=1314

Single day sign-ups are also available at the FAIR Bookstore

http://bookstore.fairlds.org/


BECOME A FAIR CONFERENCE SPONSOR
-----------------------------------
Can you or your business help sponsor the FAIR Conference? Do you
know an individual or business that can? Please review the following
information and let me know if you would be interested in helping,
and forward this information along to everyone you know who may be
similarly interested. Alternatively, please provide names of
individuals or businesses that you think might have some interest,
even if you don't have any personal contact with them, and we will
try to contact them to solicit their support:

FAIR Conference Sponsorship Information
* Programs: $500 (Includes two conference tickets and premium
space provided in the program indicating sponsorship, as well as
a listing in the program as a sponsor)

* Speakers Dinner: $500 (Includes two conference tickets and a
sign posted indicating sponsorship, as well as a listing in the
program as a sponsor)

* Lunch: $500 (Includes two conference tickets and a signposted
indicating sponsorship, as well as a listing in the program as a
sponsor)

* Snacks: $500 (Includes two conference tickets and a signposted
indicating sponsorship, as well as a listing in the program as
sponsor)

* Basic Sponsorship: $250 (Includes two conference tickets, as
well as a listing in the program as a sponsor)

* Premium Sponsorship: $500 (Includes two conference tickets, a
listing in the program as a sponsor, and space for a banner or
table at the conference)

Please send the information to president (at) fairlds.org (replace
the at with @ and remove all spaces from the email address.)

Checks can be made payable to and sent to FAIR at:

FAIR
PO Box 491677
Redding, CA 96049
Please send me an email and not simply a check with a note or
letter. Send the email to president(at sign)fairlds.org


WE NEED YOUR HELP
-----------------------------------
I know I make this plea every month, but until we get someone who
feels like giving us one or two million dollars, as annoying as it
is, we will continue to ask.

Without your donations, there would be no FAIR. But, with your
donations, we are able to reach more people, participate more in the
public square, and get more involved in refuting the
mischaracterizations of our faith.

If you like our articles and want us to continue to be involved,
please make a donation now
.


EDIT TO ADD:

FAIR existed long before donations were given so it is silly to say they'd just die on the vine without people giving money. All these guys do is write up apologetic BS and get BYU scholars to volunteer their time freely during conference talks. Why does that require "one or two million dollars"? It says if we like their articles we'll continue to give them money? FAIR doesn't really publish much of anything except for an occasional DVD which I could produce myself with little to no money at all, so where is all this money going to anyway? I get the sense that this FAIR board of Directors is using that money to pad their own pockets, rationalizing as apologists do, that their apologetic efforts produce a service worthy of payment.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Given Dan Peterson's recent lies about never being paid as an apologist, I think this FAIR newsletter is going the same way, despite its claim to be non profit. It can claim to be non profit if it is using its funding to serve its goals, but it isn't really a non profit when the people running the show are the ones receiving the funding for whatever services they think they are providing.
_lulu
_Emeritus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _lulu »

Do they publish a financial statement?
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

lulu wrote:Do they publish a financial statement?


They don't publish one, but they are required to file financial information with the IRS, and because they are a non-profit, this information is a matter of public record. Based on what I was able to find, it appears that, over the past five years, FAIR has managed to raise close to $400,000 in assets. (The most recent IRS form is from fiscal year 2010.) Interestingly, in 2009, they managed to rake in over $100,000, most of which appears to have come from, among other things, "admissions [and] merchandise sold or services performed." Who, I wonder, is paying them for this? Do they bring this in just on the annual conference alone? There is a separate section on the form for "Gifts, grants, contributions and membership fees," but this is a very small fraction of the money that's coming in from "merchandise sold or services performed" etc. I was told at one point by one of my most reliable "informants" that FAIR was being funded by "backdoor channels." I'm still not sure what this meant, but I assumed at the time that the Brethren had somehow arranged/contrived for FAIR to receive financing so that they could do apologetics.

Another interesting piece of information from the form is that it appears to list the members of the FAIR Board--something that they've been hesitant to announce. Per this form (which, again, comes from fiscal year 2010), the members of the FAIR Board were:

--Scott Gordon (President)
--Dana Repouille (Secretary)
--John Lynch (Director)
--Allen Wyatt (Vice President)
--Juliann Reynolds (Director)
--Kevin Barney (Director)
--Daniel Peterson (Director)

This, to me, is remarkable. Juliann and Allen "The Slug" Wyatt have this much power? Out of this crew, Kevin Barney is the only halfway reasonable person. It should give anyone pause to think that this crew is running the helm at FAIR. How, for example, can someone like Wiki Wonka feel comfortable contributing to this? Does he think that the mere presence of Barney is enough to save the ship? (Also, I'm rather stunned that Allen Wyatt is ranked this high in the FAIR hierarchy.)

In any case, I've always been fascinated by Mopologetic finances. When I first began inquiring into this matter, Dr. Peterson went absolutely ballistic, which of course led me to believe that I was onto something important. The more we have dug into this issue, the more it has turned out that our worst suspicions were correct.

I am guess that, in the wake of the "shake up" at the MI, we can expect either (a) the new IRS forms at FAIR to look very, very different, or (b) which I think is more likely, they will alter their tax-exempt status in such a way that they no longer have to make this information publicly available.

Kevin Graham is absolutely right: there is really no reason why FAIR would need "a million dollars." What do they imagine that they would do differently if they had that kind of money? I'm sure that some of the people on the Board would like to use it to pay themselves to do apologetics full time. But we'll see what happens.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Cicero
_Emeritus
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:09 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Cicero »

Doctor Scratch wrote:I was told at one point by one of my most reliable "informants" that FAIR was being funded by "backdoor channels." I'm still not sure what this meant, but I assumed at the time that the Brethren had somehow arranged/contrived for FAIR to receive financing so that they could do apologetics.


I have heard the same thing (though to be candid it was several years ago). The person who told me this (and he would know) said that the church was supporting FAIR financially, but he said that it "wasn't significant."

Again, please keep in mind that this conversation was in 2006.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Racer
_Emeritus
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:47 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Racer »

Its gotta drive the FAIR leadership up the wall to see Meldrum raking in the dough from his flim flam show. In reality, if FAIR wants to make more $ they need to treat it like a business, but they won't. In typical FAIR fashion they will deal in doublespeak and half truths. They really want to make $, but at the same time they want to appear that they are a non profit staffed by volunteers. So, now they are tasked with taking one reality and trying to disguise and make it appear as if it is a different reality. I swear these people are their own worst enemy and their biggest stumbling block is themselves.
Tapirs... Yeah... That's the ticket!
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Drifting »

It's like pigs at a trough, they all want their gob full.

I never ceased to be amazed that when you get done to brass tacks, anything remotely linked to Mormonism is about making money.

Led by Christ? Not likely...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_lulu
_Emeritus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _lulu »

Well, one way to get one's non-profit, tax exempt status revoked is by taking in alot of money and then paying too much of it out in salaries to the exec's.

I don't know that much about FAIR, but does a couple of web sites and one annual conference cost nearly 1/2 million dollars?

One could FIOL the IRS documents and post them on the internet.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _Drifting »

I'm sorry but Kevin Graham must be lying.

Daniel C Peterson reassured everybody that he receives no remuneration for his apologetic activities... :eek:
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_kairos
_Emeritus
Posts: 1917
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Apologetics becoming big business

Post by _kairos »

i just perused the irs 990 form for FAIR for 2010-they are not what u called big business.

scott gordon logs 15 hours per week for FAIR, all the other usual suspects including DCP, wyatt, lynch, reynolds, wyatt, barney report spending only .1 hour per week-that's 6 whole minutes each. the conf revenues are about 26k and expenses 21k. income is about 70k from merchandise ,books etc and they reported 12k in donations.

they reported no support from any other eg church or foundation etc.

pretty slim pickings from a $$$ standpoint -no money shown going to scott or any director.

just sayin

k
Post Reply