Why Men Will Have to Share Their Wives in the CK

[Tator]

This is continuing a conversation from liz's thread here, and is a response to kevinsim's comments.

viewtopic.php?p=608726#p608726

I am responding to kevin's sims comments here:

viewtopic.php?p=611531#p611531

The bottom line is that I have most definitely not had it "demonstrated on this thread that plural husbandry is in" my future.

My response:

This site shows the current world infant mortality rate.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1353

Hover over the countries and you’ll see that male infant deaths far exceed female infant deaths with the exception of two countries: China and India. When I researched this in 2006, the average was 1.3 male to 1.0 female deaths.

It is true that more infant females than males die in China and India. One estimate in the 1990’s was that a million women were missing.

http://www.csbsju.edu/Documents/Politic ... -30-04.pdf

In order to offset this real issue, when I estimated the surplus of infant males in the CK, I used a very conservative approach. I completely ignored the surplus that would have occurred prior to 1 A.D., and only focused on 1 A.D. onwards. I think this safely provides a cushion to compensate for the “China effect.”

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/totalpopulation.htm

This site gives the estimated number of births since 1 A.D. at 105,318,577,900. 8% of that is 8,425,486,232. Again, using approximately the 1.3 ratio, that means that approximately 56% of those deaths were male to 44% female. 56% of 105,318,577,900 is 471,827,229. 44% is 370,721,394. The difference between those two numbers is 101,105,835 excess males in the CK.

Remember, this has the built-in cushion of completely ignoring the number of infant deaths prior to 1 A.D. I think this is a conservative estimate, but even if the estimates are a little off, you can still get an idea of the vast numbers we’re talking about. There is no way the missing females from China and India can compensate for those numbers, much less offset the imbalance to result in female excess in the CK.

In writing this, I don’t have much expectation that you’ll accept anything I’ve offered. But I’m hoping maybe it makes you think about this issue in a slightly different way. I think there is no way LDS men can even begin to understand what is being asked of LDS females unless they open their minds to the possibility of the same thing being asked of them.

(edit on: Another reason this is a very conservative estimate is that the infant mortality rate would have been much higher in antiquity, as the numbers of births on the linked chart show. I believe this provides another cushion to compensate for the China effect.)

[_zeezrom]

I guess the Lord plans to take care of this by sending more males to lower kingdoms.

And don't forget that Outer Darkness is filled with the *sons of perdition. :)

[_beastie]

I guess the Lord plans to take care of this by sending more males to lower kingdoms.

And don't forget that Outer Darkness is filled with the *sons of perdition. :)

When this was discussed on MAD in 2006, defenders of the faith actually began speculating that maybe infants don't really go to the highest degree of glory in the CK after all. It was amazing the extent to which they would go in order to try and protect the concept of polygyny. They were willing to, figuratively speaking, throw all those poor little babies under the bus.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Even worse is the teaching that all humans who die before the age of accountability at age eight will, according to LDS doctrine, go straight to the CK.

Based on the number of humans who have died before the age of eight, the CK is going to be a damned zoo.

[_beastie]

By the way, my numbers only focused on children who die at BIRTH, not all children who die before the age of 8. Since males continue to die at a higher ration than children during childhood, this also provides another cushion to offset the China effect.

[_Nightlion]

Have not read the entire thread but what's up with fetal salvation? Stupid. I do not believe that the spirit destined for a fetus that gets terminated is saved and not simply assigned to another birth. Just because the fetus is viable does not mean a spirit is living inside it. It is kept alive in the spirit of the host. Independent life is precisely independent and that is when a spirit is assigned or placed into the new body. Christ said to Nephi that tomorrow he comes into the world and the sign of his birth would be given. This means that the spirit does not abide in the fetus and that spirits are assigned AT the moment of birth.


3 Ne. 1: 13
13 Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world, to show unto the world that I will fulfil all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets.


Little children are saved. These are those whose spirits made the connection to their body by breathing the breath of life. Only these own the DNA of that body. Everything short of this is a failed attempt, regardless how the fetus was lost.

Saved little children are never exalted and there is no purpose in doing any temple work for them. Worker bees I suppose. There is nothing to prevent angels and celestial servants from checking out and going back into the potter's ground, lose all the gifts of God and return to the light of truth for another round.

[_Themis]

This is continuing a conversation from liz's thread here, and is a response to kevinsim's comments.

viewtopic.php?p=608726#p608726

I am responding to kevin's sims comments here:

viewtopic.php?p=611531#p611531

The bottom line is that I have most definitely not had it "demonstrated on this thread that plural husbandry is in" my future.

My response:

This site shows the current world infant mortality rate.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1353

Hover over the countries and you’ll see that male infant deaths far exceed female infant deaths with the exception of two countries: China and India. When I researched this in 2006, the average was 1.3 male to 1.0 female deaths.

It is true that more infant females than males die in China and India. One estimate in the 1990’s was that a million women were missing.

http://www.csbsju.edu/Documents/Politic ... -30-04.pdf

In order to offset this real issue, when I estimated the surplus of infant males in the CK, I used a very conservative approach. I completely ignored the surplus that would have occurred prior to 1 A.D., and only focused on 1 A.D. onwards. I think this safely provides a cushion to compensate for the “China effect.”

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/totalpopulation.htm

This site gives the estimated number of births since 1 A.D. at 105,318,577,900. 8% of that is 8,425,486,232. Again, using approximately the 1.3 ratio, that means that approximately 56% of those deaths were male to 44% female. 56% of 105,318,577,900 is 471,827,229. 44% is 370,721,394. The difference between those two numbers is 101,105,835 excess males in the CK.

Remember, this has the built-in cushion of completely ignoring the number of infant deaths prior to 1 A.D. I think this is a conservative estimate, but even if the estimates are a little off, you can still get an idea of the vast numbers we’re talking about. There is no way the missing females from China and India can compensate for those numbers, much less offset the imbalance to result in female excess in the CK.

In writing this, I don’t have much expectation that you’ll accept anything I’ve offered. But I’m hoping maybe it makes you think about this issue in a slightly different way. I think there is no way LDS men can even begin to understand what is being asked of LDS females unless they open their minds to the possibility of the same thing being asked of them.

(edit on: Another reason this is a very conservative estimate is that the infant mortality rate would have been much higher in antiquity, as the numbers of births on the linked chart show. I believe this provides another cushion to compensate for the China effect.)

It's interesting to think about all the plot holes in our beliefs after we no longer have them.

[_Darth J]

What I think is amazing is that the LDS Church has it all completely wrong, but those who leave the Church will have to answer to God someday.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24758

[_Dr. Shades]

[MODERATOR NOTE: Tobin's posts, and all responses thereunto, have been split into their own thread, which you can read at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24822 .]

[_beastie]

Thank you, Shades. Now I look forward to Kevinsim's reply.