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I'm trying to figure out what I believe after the recent fiasco of learning the truth (or lie) of Mormonism.

I've toyed with the idea that rather than God being the cause of creation, God may actually be the ultimate result after millions of years of evolution. In other words, as we (humans) evolve over time, WE become God...with God being the sum of all totals which is us.So rather than God being a cause, he's more of an effect. As more of us come to know truth, we count ourselves as part of that God. God is attained over time, and God is more of an awareness than an actual physical being. Coming to understand God may take many lives.

I've also toyed with the idea that eternity is NOW and we are, in fact, progressing through the different levels of "kingdoms" (for lack of a better term) and have been for many many thousands of generations. Our separateness from God is an illusion. Once we personally shatter that illusion, we become part of this "God".

Make sense? What are your thoughts?

Joe Shmuckatelly wrote:I'm trying to figure out what I believe after the recent fiasco of learning the truth (or lie) of Mormonism.

I've toyed with the idea that rather than God being the cause of creation, God may actually be the ultimate result after millions of years of evolution. In other words, as we (humans) evolve over time, WE become God...with God being the sum of all totals which is us.So rather than God being a cause, he's more of an effect. As more of us come to know truth, we count ourselves as part of that God. God is attained over time, and God is more of an awareness than an actual physical being. Coming to understand God may take many lives.

I've also toyed with the idea that eternity is NOW and we are, in fact, progressing through the different levels of "kingdoms" (for lack of a better term) and have been for many many thousands of generations. Our separateness from God is an illusion. Once we personally shatter that illusion, we become part of this "God".

Make sense? What are your thoughts?

I'm an atheist and think that the only thing that is is this life I lead but good luck in your search for truth.

Joe Shmuckatelly wrote:I'm trying to figure out what I believe after the recent fiasco of learning the truth (or lie) of Mormonism.

I've toyed with the idea that rather than God being the cause of creation, God may actually be the ultimate result after millions of years of evolution. In other words, as we (humans) evolve over time, WE become God...with God being the sum of all totals which is us.So rather than God being a cause, he's more of an effect. As more of us come to know truth, we count ourselves as part of that God. God is attained over time, and God is more of an awareness than an actual physical being. Coming to understand God may take many lives.

I've also toyed with the idea that eternity is NOW and we are, in fact, progressing through the different levels of "kingdoms" (for lack of a better term) and have been for many many thousands of generations. Our separateness from God is an illusion. Once we personally shatter that illusion, we become part of this "God".

Make sense? What are your thoughts?

Both the law of Parsimony and Occam's Razor offer vastly easier hypotheses...... man simply invented God with all the human emotions that matter to man, you know, jealousy, anger, sadness, frustration, meanness, etc.

Joe Shmuckatelly wrote:I'm trying to figure out what I believe after the recent fiasco of learning the truth (or lie) of Mormonism.

I've toyed with the idea that rather than God being the cause of creation, God may actually be the ultimate result after millions of years of evolution. In other words, as we (humans) evolve over time, WE become God...
...
Make sense? What are your thoughts?

It sounds as though this definition of "God" would make God an object, subject to
change over time. If "Time" is more powerful than is God, then -- yeah -- maybe.

I've never been able to comprehend the Mormon idea of Eloheim as a physical being --
as an entity trapped within time-space, progressing ever onward to bigger and better
rewards/powers. But I understand that most believing LDS see things from that viewpoint,
and that it is practically impossible to change their beliefs. I seriously think it is easier
for a Mormon to become an atheist, than to evolve into any higher theological perceptions.

But, getting back to the evolving God idea -- what if we postulate that the "God" so
envisioned is NOT subject to time? What if we theorize that time and space and matter
and energy are constructs brought into being by that same theorized "God" ???

In that case, the cosmic amalgamation of sentient beings do not BECOME God at some
indefinite point along a vast chronology -- but, rather, they REALIZE that they ARE God,
each in his/her/its own way, essentially outside of time and space.

If we go in that theorizing direction, maybe I could comprehend the permutation -- at
least it would begin to make sense, both within my ability to reason and in an awareness
transcending mundane reason.

Uncle Dale

Uncle Dale wrote:

Joe Shmuckatelly wrote:I'm trying to figure out what I believe after the recent fiasco of learning the truth (or lie) of Mormonism.

I've toyed with the idea that rather than God being the cause of creation, God may actually be the ultimate result after millions of years of evolution. In other words, as we (humans) evolve over time, WE become God...
...
Make sense? What are your thoughts?

It sounds as though this definition of "God" would make God an object, subject to
change over time. If "Time" is more powerful than is God, then -- yeah -- maybe.

I've never been able to comprehend the Mormon idea of Eloheim as a physical being --
as an entity trapped within time-space, progressing ever onward to bigger and better
rewards/powers. But I understand that most believing LDS see things from that viewpoint,
and that it is practically impossible to change their beliefs. I seriously think it is easier
for a Mormon to become an atheist, than to evolve into any higher theological perceptions.

But, getting back to the evolving God idea -- what if we postulate that the "God" so
envisioned is NOT subject to time? What if we theorize that time and space and matter
and energy are constructs brought into being by that same theorized "God" ???

In that case, the cosmic amalgamation of sentient beings do not BECOME God at some
indefinite point along a vast chronology -- but, rather, they REALIZE that they ARE God,
each in his/her/its own way, essentially outside of time and space.

If we go in that theorizing direction, maybe I could comprehend the permutation -- at
least it would begin to make sense, both within my ability to reason and in an awareness
transcending mundane reason.

Uncle Dale

The problem here is being out of time means there is no past, present, or future (as all have to do with time), so if future events do not yet causally exist, God cannot be causing them to exist. The reason why is because if he was causing them to exist, they would, in fact, exist in their respective times.

Philo Sofee wrote:...

The problem here is being out of time means there is no past, present, or future (as all have to do with time), so if future events do not yet causally exist, God cannot be causing them to exist. The reason why is because if he was causing them to exist, they would, in fact, exist in their respective times.

Agreed.

Any definition of "God" which makes use of the term "exist" or "existence"
will ultimately result in absurd statements.

God as the basis for existence -- or as the ground of being -- is a little
more palatable, theologically speaking. But in the realm of reason, that
sort of statement is like postulating zero multiplied by infinity, or infinity
divided by zero.

Zen koans make absolutely no sense -- and yet sensible people have
composed them for a certain purpose. The contemplation of paradoxes
and mental attempts to resolve opposites may provide existential results
beyond simple cognitive dissonance. It may also lead to dissociation.
And beyond that lies a vast experiential metaphysics.

UD

Uncle Dale wrote:

Philo Sofee wrote:...

The problem here is being out of time means there is no past, present, or future (as all have to do with time), so if future events do not yet causally exist, God cannot be causing them to exist. The reason why is because if he was causing them to exist, they would, in fact, exist in their respective times.

Agreed.

Any definition of "God" which makes use of the term "exist" or "existence"
will ultimately result in absurd statements.

God as the basis for existence -- or as the ground of being -- is a little
more palatable, theologically speaking. But in the realm of reason, that
sort of statement is like postulating zero multiplied by infinity, or infinity
divided by zero.

Zen koans make absolutely no sense -- and yet sensible people have
composed them for a certain purpose. The contemplation of paradoxes
and mental attempts to resolve opposites may provide existential results
beyond simple cognitive dissonance. It may also lead to dissociation.
And beyond that lies a vast experiential metaphysics.

UD

True that. Contemplating time and God whether outside or inside is definitely in the realm of a Koan......

Any sober mind need only contemplate that we have stands of straight trees, convenient to mill and build with to know that there is a God. A random world would have only provided bramble.

Or, that we have inexhaustible resources to heat and cool ourselves that required millions of years of planning preparations.

Or that God's spaceships of maintenance crews drop off a new breed of dog every so often. How could God claim ownership of the planet if he did not maintain it? We think it's for us to save the planet. Stupid. And rather uppity and rude. Scripture verifies God uses what we today consider UFOs. And of course they ignore us. Duh?

Think, I mean, seriously, how UFOs prove God. It is so blatant that Satan has to mask over the phenomena with his little green men, Mars attacks and abduction nightmares to wrench the persuasions of men away from the obvious cold hard fact that God keeps watch and maintains what is his. A Good Shepherd if you will.

Anybody get whiplash from this?

Nightlion wrote:Any sober mind need only contemplate that we have stands of straight trees, convenient to mill and build with to know that there is a God. A random world would have only provided bramble.

Or, that we have inexhaustible resources to heat and cool ourselves that required millions of years of planning preparations.

Or that God's spaceships of maintenance crews drop off a new breed of dog every so often. How could God claim ownership of the planet if he did not maintain it? We think it's for us to save the planet. Stupid. And rather uppity and rude. Scripture verifies God uses what we today consider UFOs. And of course they ignore us. Duh?

Think, I mean, seriously, how UFOs prove God. It is so blatant that Satan has to mask over the phenomena with his little green men, Mars attacks and abduction nightmares to wrench the persuasions of men away from the obvious cold hard fact that God keeps watch and maintains what is his. A Good Shepherd if you will.

Anybody get whiplash from this?

Why yes I did, from laughing so damn hard it popped my neck out of place when I tossed my head back on reading this hilarious spoof of reality!

Nightlion wrote:...
Anybody get whiplash from this?

No -- I paused my reading, to watch a palm frond drop from the top
of the tree, outside my window, to the rotting pile of old vegetation
at its base. It must have taken all of three seconds; and I missed
the first two.

I suppose that the old branch's time had come. It was already nearly
dead, attached to the top of the palm tree. But now its composition
can disintegrate, into the rest of the rot, and at least provide some
nourishment for the tree roots.

Are there any special words you'd like said over your own corpse,
before the day arrives when it merges with the dust of the earth?

UD