The Church Vaults Contain Stolen Property!

[_Nomomo]

The Church vaults contain property which was stolen from Willard Chase by Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. The only decent and honest thing for the Church to do is return this stolen property to the control and possession of the descendants of Willard Chase ~_-

[Guest]

From the Willard Chase Affidavit:

"I don't
care who in the Devil it
belongs to, you shall
not have it." ~ Hyrum Smith when refusing to return the seerstone to Willard Chase

[_Nomomo]

From the Willard Chase Affidavit:

I became acquainted with the Smith family, known as the authors of the Mormon Bible, in the year 1820. At that time, they were engaged in the money digging business, which they followed until the latter part of the season of 1827. In the year 1822, I was engaged in digging a well. I employed Alvin and Joseph Smith to assist me; the latter of whom is now known as the Mormon prophet. After digging about twenty feet below the surface of the earth, we discovered a singularly appearing stone, which excited my curiosity. I brought it to the top of the well,[Willard Chase] and as we were examining it, Joseph put it into his hat, and then his face into the top of his hat. It has been said by Smith, that he brought the stone from the well; but this is false. There was no one in the well but myself. The next morning he came to me, and wished to obtain the stone, alledging that he could see in it; but I told him I did not wish to part with it on account of its being a curiosity, but would lend it. After obtaining the stone, he began to publish abroad what wonders he could discover by looking in it , and made so much disturbance among the credulous part of community, that I ordered the stone to be returned to me again. He had it in his possession about two years. --I believe, some time in 1825, Hiram Smith (brother of Joseph Smith) came to me, and wished to borrow the same stone, alledging that they wanted to accomplish some business of importance, which could not very well be done without the aid of the stone. I told him it was of no particular worth to me, but merely wished to keep it as a curiosity, and if he would pledge me his word and honor, that I should have it when called for, he might take it; which he did and took the stone. I thought I could rely on his word at this time, as he had made a profession of religion. But in this I was disappointed, for he disregarded both his word and honor.

In the fall of 1826, a friend called upon me and wished to see that stone, about which so much had been said; and I told him if he would go with me to Smith's, (a distance of about half a mile) he might see it. But to my surprize, on going to Smith's, and asking him for the stone, he said, "you cannot have it;" I told him it belonged to me, repeated to him the promise he made me, at the time of obtaining the stone: upon which he faced me with a malignant look and said, "I don't care who in the Devil it belongs to, you shall not have it."

[_DrW]

On a related subject, the very thorough and well kept journals from several generations of my SIL's somewhat well known (in Utah) pioneer family were donated to the LDS Church by her grandparents at the request of a Church representative.

When my SIL found out about this several years after the death of her grandparents, and requested access to the journals of her grandparents, she was denied access (or even the possibility of access).

Her TBM parents, although unhappy about the donation, were not willing to buck the system even to the extent needed to get access to the journals.

I have since been told that this kind of action by the Church has taken place with journals and historical artifacts from other Mormon "pioneer" families. I have not tried to verify any other instances, but know that my SIL was very distressed about this. She eventually left the Church, as did her entire family, except her husband from whom she is now divorced.

Has anyone else heard anything about this kind of policy or behavior by the Church?

Seems like if family heritage is so important, the Church would not be in the business of taking it out of the hands of families

[_Nomomo]

On a related subject, the very thorough and well kept journals from several generations of my SIL's somewhat well known (in Utah) pioneer family were donated to the LDS Church by her grandparents at the request of a Church representative.

When my SIL found out about this several years after the death of her grandparents, and requested access to the journals of her grandparents, she was denied access (or even the possibility of access).

Her TBM parents, although unhappy about the donation, were not willing to buck the system even to the extent needed to get access to the journals.

I have since been told that this kind of action by the Church has taken place with journals and historical artifacts from other Mormon "pioneer" families. I have not tried to verify any other instances, but know that my SIL was very distressed about this. She eventually left the Church, as did her entire family, except her husband from whom she is now divorced.

Has anyone else heard anything about this kind of policy or behavior by the Church?

Seems like if family heritage is so important, the Church would not be in the business of taking it out of the hands of families

Evidently this is SOP for the Church. A quick Google came up with a Username Carmen at the NOM Board whose family's ancestors journals were donated to the Church Historical Archives w\no access or BYU Archives w/limited access. Her family doesn't know if they were donated freely or under duress.

[_zeezrom]

Really? The church won't let descendants see their family writings? This is really sad. Kind of heart breaking.

The rock story is just plain weird. It's like toys and children. The more it is desired, the more worth it accrues.

[_harmony]

Makes ya wonder what's in those journals, doesn't it?

[Guest]

Has anyone else heard anything about this kind of policy or behavior by the Church?

Seems like if family heritage is so important, the Church would not be in the business of taking it out of the hands of families

My understanding is that back in the 60s and 70s the Church put out the call to members to "donate" all of their ancestors' pioneer journals and historical documents to the Church. I don't know why they asked them to do that, but the end result is that they went into a black hole.

A cynical explanation is that the Church wanted to deep six these documents in an effort to further hide its history. A less cynical explanation is that the Church wanted these documents as part of its efforts to collect historical information (that granite mountain is chock full of biographical documents from newspapers, etc.) but then didn't have the resources to allow public access. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[_Fence Sitter]

I think the Church should allow access to the journals of direct relatives but I also have to wonder why people didn't make copies of what they were donating.

[_just me]

I've heard of limited or denied access to pioneer journals. THere are some journals you can read in a little reading room, from what I have heard. I know someone who has read some stuff that way. Not sure if you need a TR or not.

I think it's just mean to steal someone's seerstone and never give it back.