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The Prophet will never lead you astray?

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:31 pm
by _Shixon1
The church goes to great lenghts to teach that the prophet will not lead the members astray. Uncle Dale provided the following references in my Key to Mormonism thread to support that. I think that is one of the teachings that the church uses to keep members faithful. Although the church teaches that, what I find in the scriptures shows that God gives no such promise.



(3-7) The Lord Will Never Permit the Living Prophet to Lead the Church Astray

The following are three testimonies which show clearly that the Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church out of the path of truth:

“I bear you my solemn witness that we have a living prophet, seer, and revelator. We are not dependent only upon the revelations given in the past . . . we have a mouthpiece to whom God is revealing his mind and will. God will never permit him to lead us astray. As has been said, God would remove us out of our place if we should attempt to do it. You have not concern. Let the management and government of God, then, be with the Lord. Do not try to find fault with the management and affairs that pertain to him alone and by revelation through his prophet.” (Harold B. Lee, “The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator,” in Charge, p. 112.)

“I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President [Heber J.] Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting, I drove him home. . . . When we got to his home I got out of the car and went up on the porch with him. Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’” (Marion G. Romney, in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78.)

“I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Wilford Woodruff, in “General Conference,” Millennial Star, 24 Nov. 1890 [52:741]; or The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.)

A man who is out of harmony with the Lord will never lead the Lord’s church. God will not permit it. The following quotations make that clear:

“Safety is in following divinely appointed leadership and counsel. . . .

“The keys of this power and authority center in the president of the High Priesthood of the Church. It is not given to any other man to so represent God here upon the earth. . . .

“God will not suffer his Church, established for the last time in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times when a restitution of all things is to be accomplished, to be led by a fallen prophet, or by someone whom he does not want.” (Delbert L. Stapley, in Conference Report, Apr. 1952, pp. 49–50.)

“I testify in the name of Israel’s God that He will not suffer the head of the Church, him whom He has chosen to stand at the head, to transgress His laws and apostatize; the moment he should take a course that would in time lead to it, God would take him away. Why? Because to suffer a wicked man to occupy that position would be to allow, as it were, the fountain to become corrupted, which is something He will never permit.” (Joseph F. Smith, in Journal of Discourses, 24:192.)




Here is a letter to the editor I wrote in the Logan, UT The Heareld Journal.




What is a Prophet?

In the Bible Dictionary it says, “When the people had fallen away from a true faith in Jehovah, the prophets had to try to restore that faith and remove false views about the character of God… In a general sense a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost.

In a letter to the editor dated November 26, 2008, it was written, “I wish there were some kind of way to dissuade people from complete unquestioning trust in a prophet.” I would like to echo this statement. Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man. (2nd Nephi 28:30-32) Although we should not trust in man there are men that are willing to follow and do God’s will.

A couple of years ago, Manuel Cardozo, a street preacher walked up and down the west side of Main Street. I never got the chance to hear what he was saying. However, I did hear others that were persecuting him. It strikes me ironic that some people looked down on him, when he was doing the same thing Lehi was doing in warning the people of Jerusalem. (1st Nephi 1:18-20) Another trait of ancient prophets was to warn people of the judgments of God that would come if they didn’t repent. I see prophets as men that love all people and like God; they are not respecters of persons. (D&C 1:35) They would be concerned with the well being of all Mankind and not only members of one church.

When Gordon B. Hinckley died it was said repeatedly that he was the people’s Prophet. Today members of the church say that Thomas S Monson is God’s prophet because he is the President of the Church. Brigham Young taught, “A man may be a prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and it may have nothing to do with his being the President of the Church. (Discourses of Brigham Young. 1925 Pg. 213)

I find it hard to follow a man that leads an organization that is concerned with building a 2 billion dollar shopping mall and buying land and other investment properties. A church that is more concerned with using earthly political power instead of doing God’s will to allow all men to exercise their free agency.

Do we as Mormons not realize that all churches that are built up to get power and gain will fall and great shall be the fall thereof? (1st Nephi 22:23, D&C 10:56, D&C 112:22-29) We could learn from the Jehovah Witnesses what it means to warn people of future events if the people do not repent. I do fear for all those that trust in man more than the word of God. (D&C 3:6-7, D&C 60:2)

The Book of Mormon is a “record of a fallen people” whose pride led to their destruction.(D&C 20:9, Moro. 8:27)

May we all live that we can all speak in the name of God, so faith might increase in the Earth (D&C 1:18-21) and that we do not become as the Nephites of old. (D&C 38:39)


One thing I found interesting is that the church wanted something in the scriptures that said that the prophet would not be able to lead members astray. So when they put the officail Declaration #2 in that gave the priesthood to all male members, they added Excerpts from Three Addresses by President Wilford Woodruff Regarding the Manifesto to the official Declaration #1 that were not in the pre 1981 versions of the scriptures. It makes a person wonder why they added those to show that the prophet could not lead the members astray instead of just having Spencer W. Kimball say it

Re: The Prophet will never lead you astray?

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:52 pm
by _DarkHelmet
It's a circular argument. Being astray means you stop following the prophet. If you are following the prophet, no matter how wacky he is, you have not gone astray. It's impossible.

Re: The Prophet will never lead you astray?

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:31 am
by _Nightlion
Isaiah 3:
12....... O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Jesus Christ testified that those who sit in Moses' seat say but do not do what is right.

I think Matthew 23 is the end of the controversy:

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Nobody can mislead except they ARE the leaders. Duh? Look at wicked King Noah. Had authority as did Alma one of his priests. Cain was in authority with Adam and he misled an entire world to follow Satan.

The Church thought it wise to put out sticky fly paper to catch the annoyances of bugger gnats pestering them with second guessing. That was back in the day when all men were prophets and that got quashed too. Big mistake there!

Re: The Prophet will never lead you astray?

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:43 pm
by _Shixon1
Maybe this scripture is yet to be fulfilled. D&C 64:38-39
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.

39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known.

Anyone can get revelation not just the prophet.

6 Great shall be their reward and eternal shall be their aglory.

7 And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all things pertaining to my kingdom.

8 Yea, even the wonders of aeternity shall they know, and things to come will I show them, even the things of many generations.

9 And their wisdom shall be great, and their understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding of the dprudent shall come to naught.

10 For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man.




Nightlion wrote:Isaiah 3:
12....... O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Jesus Christ testified that those who sit in Moses' seat say but do not do what is right.

I think Matthew 23 is the end of the controversy:

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Nobody can mislead except they ARE the leaders. Duh? Look at wicked King Noah. Had authority as did Alma one of his priests. Cain was in authority with Adam and he misled an entire world to follow Satan.

The Church thought it wise to put out sticky fly paper to catch the annoyances of b****r gnats pestering them with second guessing. That was back in the day when all men were prophets and that got quashed too. Big mistake there!