A Fitting Response to Hamblin

[_Kishkumen]

Ed Firmage, Jr. has written an opinion piece that I think offers a nice response, probably not deliberately one, though, to Bill Hamblin's blog post about four essential Mormon beliefs:

For Mormons, as for most Christians, religious truth is a matter of what you believe. This belief can be put in words, as Mormons do in their testimonies or in the "Thirteen Articles of Faith," the Mormon equivalent of the Creed. For Christians, and I include Mormons in this group, it is one’s creed that defines one’s truth.

The abundance of competing creeds, and the vehemence with which each is defended against the others, suggests that we should take our truths with a grain of salt. Rock salt, perhaps.

It’s easy for outsiders, and especially for skeptical outsiders, to poke fun at the silliness of other people’s beliefs, or indeed of belief of any kind. Richard Dawkins is not the first agnostic to decry the "God delusion," and won’t be the last.

Speaking as a skeptic myself, however, I think the more important issue, since belief proves to be remarkably resistant to attacks from the outside, is whether this creedal kind of truth is worth talking about anyway, even among believers.

I would argue that creedal truths are the least important elements of faith. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that what Mormons assert about Joseph Smith is true. What then? What then for Mormons? Surely, it is not the knowledge that Smith was a prophet that is important, but rather what that truth does in one’s life as a believer. The truth of religion, if it has any truth, must always be a truth of transformation, an existential rather than epistemological truth. The ultimate truth of Mormonism or Catholicism or Judaism is not what you believe but what you do.

This is an altogether different way of looking at truth, and of relating to each other. It avoids the usual sectarian disputes and focuses on things that can unite us in common cause. No less important, it holds up to us a standard of action that, especially in the true believer, should be the cause for self-examination and humility.

If, for example, as Mormons claim, they have a unique, saving truth, then it should be manifested in the way they live. That way of life should be correspondingly unique and saving. That was the thinking behind the biblical ideal of Zion that the early Mormon pioneers rallied around. I note the absence of such a model community here in the heartland of Mormonism. An unbeliever, I mourn for Zion.

Humanity today faces challenges greater than any in history. Climate change, for example, is a problem without precedent in our experience. Ours is therefore a time when myth, myth like that of the biblical Deluge, becomes history. These are the decades of our making or unmaking as a species. These are decades that need a saving truth, not of creeds but of faith in action, faith directed at solving the real problems of our time.

[_harmony]

If, for example, as Mormons claim, they have a unique, saving truth, then it should be manifested in the way they live. That way of life should be correspondingly unique and saving

Were that that vision was real. How sad that it's not, and it won't be until changes are made that support the concept of a saving truth. I doubt I will live that long.

[_Uther]

Ed Firmage, Jr. has written an opinion piece that I think offers a nice response, probably not deliberately one, though, to Bill Hamblin's blog post about four essential Mormon beliefs:

For Mormons, as for most Christians, religious truth is a matter of what you believe. This belief can be put in words, as Mormons do in their testimonies or in the "Thirteen Articles of Faith," the Mormon equivalent of the Creed. For Christians, and I include Mormons in this group, it is one’s creed that defines one’s truth.

The abundance of competing creeds, and the vehemence with which each is defended against the others, suggests that we should take our truths with a grain of salt. Rock salt, perhaps.

It’s easy for outsiders, and especially for skeptical outsiders, to poke fun at the silliness of other people’s beliefs, or indeed of belief of any kind. Richard Dawkins is not the first agnostic to decry the "God delusion," and won’t be the last.

Speaking as a skeptic myself, however, I think the more important issue, since belief proves to be remarkably resistant to attacks from the outside, is whether this creedal kind of truth is worth talking about anyway, even among believers.

I would argue that creedal truths are the least important elements of faith. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that what Mormons assert about Joseph Smith is true. What then? What then for Mormons? Surely, it is not the knowledge that Smith was a prophet that is important, but rather what that truth does in one’s life as a believer. The truth of religion, if it has any truth, must always be a truth of transformation, an existential rather than epistemological truth. The ultimate truth of Mormonism or Catholicism or Judaism is not what you believe but what you do.

This is an altogether different way of looking at truth, and of relating to each other. It avoids the usual sectarian disputes and focuses on things that can unite us in common cause. No less important, it holds up to us a standard of action that, especially in the true believer, should be the cause for self-examination and humility.

If, for example, as Mormons claim, they have a unique, saving truth, then it should be manifested in the way they live. That way of life should be correspondingly unique and saving. That was the thinking behind the biblical ideal of Zion that the early Mormon pioneers rallied around. I note the absence of such a model community here in the heartland of Mormonism. An unbeliever, I mourn for Zion.

Humanity today faces challenges greater than any in history. Climate change, for example, is a problem without precedent in our experience. Ours is therefore a time when myth, myth like that of the biblical Deluge, becomes history. These are the decades of our making or unmaking as a species. These are decades that need a saving truth, not of creeds but of faith in action, faith directed at solving the real problems of our time.

I find the last part of the quote especially interesting. After my world view changed with my faith, I came to realise looking back that the church had a great influence on how I had percieved the future challenges of humanity. When I viewed the world with the glasses of Mormonism, I saw the global and enviromental challenges as mere preparations for the second coming, and my idea was that the Lord was running this, so I didn't have to worry no try to interfere. Now I see things differently and find it disturbing to see how religious belief can act as a buffer vs reality.

[_mercyngrace]

Ed Firmage, Jr. has written an opinion piece that I think offers a nice response, probably not deliberately one, though, to Bill Hamblin's blog post about four essential Mormon beliefs:

If, for example, as Mormons claim, they have a unique, saving truth, then it should be manifested in the way they live. That way of life should be correspondingly unique and saving. That was the thinking behind the biblical ideal of Zion that the early Mormon pioneers rallied around. I note the absence of such a model community here in the heartland of Mormonism. An unbeliever, I mourn for Zion.

Humanity today faces challenges greater than any in history. Climate change, for example, is a problem without precedent in our experience. Ours is therefore a time when myth, myth like that of the biblical Deluge, becomes history. These are the decades of our making or unmaking as a species. These are decades that need a saving truth, not of creeds but of faith in action, faith directed at solving the real problems of our time.

This part of the article reminded me of these words:

“Friendship is one of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’; [it is designed] to revolutionize and civilize the world, and cause wars and contentions to cease and men to become friends and brothers” (TPJS, p. 316).

What a difference we could make if we willing beat our swords into plowshares.

[_harmony]

This part of the article reminded me of these words:

“Friendship is one of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’; [it is designed] to revolutionize and civilize the world, and cause wars and contentions to cease and men to become friends and brothers” (TPJS, p. 316).

What a difference we could make if we willing beat our swords into plowshares.

You are so right, mercyngrace. If those who claim to be Mormon actually lived the gospel of Jesus Christ, the influence on the world would be unceasing and the good people of the world would be lining up at the baptismal font. We'd have no need of missionaries because we'd be the real "light of the world". The tithes of the widowed and the poor would not be supporting the GA's rich man lifestyle. Turning the other cheek would be the norm. Members wouldn't need to wear shirts advertising their affiliation, when helping neighbors after disaster strikes.

Unfortunately, that is not the case, and never has been.

[_Kishkumen]

This part of the article reminded me of these words:

“Friendship is one of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’; [it is designed] to revolutionize and civilize the world, and cause wars and contentions to cease and men to become friends and brothers” (TPJS, p. 316).

What a difference we could make if we willing beat our swords into plowshares.

You may enjoy Don Bradley's Sunstone article on the Grand Fundamental Principles of Mormonism.

[_mercyngrace]

I have enjoyed it, Kish. Repeatedly. Don did a phenomenal job.

[_Kishkumen]

I have enjoyed it, Kish. Repeatedly. Don did a phenomenal job.

I thought you might have, but I wasn't sure. I like it a lot too.

[_Cicero]

I have enjoyed it, Kish. Repeatedly. Don did a phenomenal job.

I thought you might have, but I wasn't sure. I like it a lot too.

Humph, more "nincompoopery" from Sunstone . . .

[_mercyngrace]

I have enjoyed it, Kish. Repeatedly. Don did a phenomenal job.

I thought you might have, but I wasn't sure. I like it a lot too.

Sorry if that response sounded a little curt. I was typing on my phone during church. I know... I know... shhhh...