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I was reading Grant Palmers book the other day and I came across the section about the "translation" of the Book of Abraham and a thought came to my mind (no doubt inspiration from the Holy Ghost).

Joseph Smith knew he never had real plates for the Book of Mormon. It's why he was so secretive about anyone being able to see them, or rather, see that he had nothing. And when he finally did "show" them, it was seen with the witnesses "spiritual" eyes or as has been described elsewhere "2nd sight".

He was able to "translate" the Book of Mormon without the plates in the same room.

Why could he not do the same with the Book of Abraham? Why spend 2400 dollars on some mummies that he didn't NEED in order to come up with a translation?

The Gold Plates were taken back up to heaven. Why? Too sacred for the world to see? To force faith?

Why was the Book of Abraham papyrus not taken up to heaven? Was it not as sacred as the Book of Mormon? Was it because it wasn't gold, so God valued it less? Did God not require extra faith in the Book of Abraham?

Why force faith in the Book of Mormon by taking the Gold Plates, but not force faith in the Book of Abraham papyri by taking them to heaven, too? It seems God changed his modus operandi here when it comes to original, sacred records in mortal hands.

In my some-what critical mind, I think Joseph Smith was thrilled to be able to show something that could be displayed as evidence of his translation abilities because he knew he never had gold plates to show for the same effect. Or, if he did have "gold" plates to show, he knew they would not stand up to expert examination like he knew the papyri would.

Basically, it doesn't make sense to me why the Gold Plates had to be so protected, but Joseph Smith had no problem displaying an exhibit for the mummies.

To me, it's more proof Joseph Smith never had Gold Plates to begin with based on how he reacted and treated the "find" of the Egyptian mummies.

Thoughts?

I expect an apologist to point out that there was a sealed portion on the gold plates that Joseph was not allowed to reveal, and because of that sacred information the plates could not remain on the earth.

The papyrus on the other hand were just some common funerary scrolls.

Could've just been another of his money-making schemes. (Mormonism being one of them also.)

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I agree with Hasa. The physical artifacts, at the time, must have been very exciting. I was one of those kids who stared for what must have been dozens of hours at those facsimiles.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:These are just my thoughts, but I've met a large number of LDS members who are drawn to the pictures in the Book of Abraham. I imagine that it was even more thrilling to see the originals on display in the 1840s. It was a tangible and real piece of history and Joseph had a habit of taking real objects and creating a narrative around "ancient" objects, take for example the Adamic and Nephite Altars and the bones of Zelph the white lamanite as examples.

With the gold plates they obviously didn't exist in the same way and weren't actually from antiquity and so it was easier not to show them to people because there was the possibility they could be discredited in the same way the characters that were taken to Mitchell and Anthon were.

If Zelph's bones were still available for testing they wouldn't show Israelite DNA and no doubt wouldn't fit the time frame of the Book of Mormon in the same way that the translation of the papyrus doesn't match the Book of Abraham, but there is no way Joseph Smith could have known that there would be methods to disprove his claims in the future and since it was long after his lifetime I doubt he would have cared if he had known.

Those are my thoughts on it.

Hasa Diga Eebowai

I have an admittedly vague sense from what I have read of the volumes of the HoC that unlike the situation when JSJr rolled out the Book of Mormon, in later years he was under some pressure--as much from within the faithful Mormon ranks as from outside observers and critics--to essentially 'put up or shut up'. Under that pressure, the need for ancient artifacts to support his fabrications increased. It was JSJr's good fortune that Chandler stopped in Kirtland in his westward trek to peddle the mummies.

From 1835 until 1842, JSJr was able to cajole money out of the faithful to support him in the absence of real work so that JSJr could work on the translation of the 'sacred record' of Father Abraham off of the papyri encased with the mummies. JSJr would show off the papyri and mummies on fairly frequent occasions (kind of reminds me of Hoffman showing certain 'letters' to God's braintrust of SWK, NET, MGR, BKP, and GBH in the infamous photo that Paul O from time to time includes in a post--thank you, Paul--I always get a chuckle from seeing that pix when you post it).

For having left the 'translating' project virtually idle from early 1836 through late 1841, then in November or December 1841, there was almost an urgency to getting it published. He replaced the last of his scribes from the 1835 period (when the methodical translation approach had been attempted) with the newer sycophant Willard Richards for the project (so that JSJr could just dictate it on the fly), and then got it out and published from March - June 1842.

By late 1841, JSJr had lived well over a decade off of the sweat of others, given up by them in part from JSJr's production of the Book of Mormon and being able to display the mummies and papyri. There had been the Kirtland and Missouri disasters, and the contribution-weary faithful were perhaps demanding that the 'prophet' produce something by 1841. "What has Joe done for us lately?" type of sentiment. As a consequence of this pressure, JSJr finished the Book of Abraham, and the facsimiles, published them.

That's my hypothesis of what was at play.

It's so random. It therefore must be inspiration!

I love the mummies. I love the papyri.

I am so happy Joseph borrowed the money to buy them.

Kishkumen wrote:I love the mummies. I love the papyri.

I am so happy Joseph borrowed the money to buy them.

Because they are actual artifacts from antiquity? (They would have been so even if JSJr hadn't bought them, but you might not have spent hours pondering them if he hadn't.)

Because the papyri disconnects JSJr from claims he was actually translating characters on that papyri?

Because ... ?

Mummies are wicked awesome! That's why!