DiscussMormonism.com

This is my first post. Allow me to explain where I am right now in terms of my level of belief. I believe in the Gospel as taught by the LDS Church but am beginning to question whether the Church is "true." I have had very strong experiences with God and with the Holy Spirit that make it impossible for me to doubt that God lives. I also believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet who was called to Restore the Lord's Church on the Earth. Whether Joseph remained a prophet or whether he "fell" by the end of his life is not clear to me. I think that The Keys were passed to the Twelve before Joseph fell, if he did fall, and thus, the Church's authority was preserved. I think the Keys are probably still with the Church, though I do not know if they are being actively "used." I believe that Church doctrine is true. I do not believe, however, that Church culture is true. I even believe that what you hear in Church on the local level is mostly true. I worry about The Corporation, though.

I came here because I want a forum for discussing my religion without having to "come out of the closet" to anyone whom I know in real life about my doubts and thoughts.

The thing that led me to this forum was my desire to have a place to discuss Mitt Romney's run for President. After reading much about the Gadianton Robbers in preparation for teaching Gospel Doctrine this past Sunday, I had to ask myself; isn't Mitt Romney about as big a Gadianton Robber as there is? In a country where the only two candidates for President in 2004 were members of Skull & Bones, I don't think you get a major party nomination without being part of The Conspiracy. Don't we read in the Book of Mormon that Gadianton Robbers will be present in every nation on Earth during the last days? Why don't LDS people seem to care about this? President Benson said back in the 60s that the great secret combination was Communism. President Hinckley made a vague reference to Muslim terrorists as Gadianton Robbers in the October 2001 Conference. But nobody seems to be willing to talk about the idea that secret combinations are alive and well here in the U.S. of A. And if Mitt Romney is one of them, does that mean that some of his most ardent supporters in the Church are in the "secret combination" too?

I keep asking myself if it matters. I think the Church is doing a bang-up job playing the part of the haughty daughter of Zion in Isaiah 3. Most in the Church would say that the state of the Church is currently found in Isaiah 4. But the falsity, pretentiousness, and material-obsessedness of it all makes me think that the Church is in Isaiah 3.

Isn't the pre 1990 temple ceremony, the type of swearing by your throat secret combination the Book of Mormon warns against?

Welcome.

If you are not familiar with the board then a word of warning. The moderation here, by design, allows pretty much anything, with few exceptions. Most of us like the fact we can express our opinions without fear of censorship but there is a price to pay. I find that if you treat people respectfully that is what you will get in return and for the rest we have a great ignore feature.

We run heavily toward ex members, and current NOM's, mixed in with a few never mo's and even fewer TBM's.

Good luck.

SteelHead wrote:Isn't the pre 1990 temple ceremony, the type of swearing by your throat secret combination the Book of Mormon warns against?

Probably. But I'm too young to have gone through the temple before 1990 so it isn't my problem.

But seriously, that's why I say that I have my doubts about Joseph Smith maintaining his status as a prophet until the end of his life. I think the Keys went to the Twelve and were preserved before Joseph got caught up in Masonism. Blacks and the Priesthood tells me that the Lord is willing to allow the Church to engage in false practices, even over a period of many decades. The Endowment might just be one of those practices. It is certainly one of the most unscriptural of all Mormon practices.

So, are endowed Mormons, and especially those endowed before 1990, part of a secret combination?

I'm more interested in secret combinations in general, though.

My first recommendation would be to stop thinking so literally about secret combinations. We have folks like President Ezra T. Benson to thank for this preoccupation with modern Gadiantons. Benson, of course, was referring to Communism. Benson was a fanatical anti-Communist and sympathizer with the political cult known as the John Birch Society.

I would recommend, instead, that you consider the teachings of the endowment regarding property. Reread the account of Cain in the Book of Moses. Review Hugh Nibley's Approaching Zion. There is a more profound idea concerning the conflict between greed and altruism, or of privileging material gain over the welfare of fellow human beings, that underlies all of these teachings about secret combinations, oaths with Satan, and so forth.

The sickness that leads to secret combinations is the lust for power and gain. It is this lust for power and gain that is the real problem. Infatuation with conspiracy theories is, in my opinion, an unproductive fixation.

Just my 2 cents.

Kishkumen wrote:Infatuation with conspiracy theories is, in my opinion, an unproductive fixation.

I found this to be very true, dear Kish.

Welcome to the board, Henry! I wish you well on your journey. I am sure you are going to learn a LOT and have a wild ride.

Welcome Henry. Do you take the BoMormon to be historically accurate?

I'm not sure if you should or should not read Damon Smith's "the book of mammon". He does his own speculation about the Olympics, Mitt Romney, and presidential politics.

I had to ask myself; isn't Mitt Romney about as big a Gadianton Robber as there is?

It's possible, but not very likely. If he were, the Democrats are a hundred times worse. Recall that the Gadianton robbers were born from an organization which believed they could subvert the law and even murder to gain control of the government. This is also an apt description of Obama, Al Gore, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, and all the Democrats.

But nobody seems to be willing to talk about the idea that secret combinations are alive and well here in the U.S. of A. And if Mitt Romney is one of them, does that mean that some of his most ardent supporters in the Church are in the "secret combination" too?

I keep asking myself if it matters. I think the Church is doing a bang-up job playing the part of the haughty daughter of Zion in Isaiah 3. Most in the Church would say that the state of the Church is currently found in Isaiah 4. But the falsity, pretentiousness, and material-obsessedness of it all makes me think that the Church is in Isaiah 3.

The Church doesn't appear to be causing any of this though of course some members have such problems. In fact, all the members are sinners which is why we go to Church in the first place.

bcspace wrote:

I had to ask myself; isn't Mitt Romney about as big a Gadianton Robber as there is?

It's possible, but not very likely. If he were, the Democrats are a hundred times worse. Recall that the Gadianton robbers were born from an organization which believed they could subvert the law and even murder to gain control of the government. This is also an apt description of Obama, Al Gore, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, and all the Democrats ....

I'm sorry? Obama has been involved in murder to gain political power?

Oh well, it's only bcspace I suppose. Nothing serious.