Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:29 am
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Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:54 am
You can't be a democrat and Mormon, therefore those people are not Mormons...so says bcspace
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:43 am
3sheets2thewind wrote:You can't be a democrat and Mormon, therefore those people are not Mormons...so says bcspace
No, you can be a democrat and Mormon. You can't be a democrat and a good Mormon.
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:56 am
I am sure BC has a perfectly good explanation for this. They must be wolves in sheep's clothing, mislead by evil spirits, flirting with apostasy, or they don't have a strong enough testimony, are spiritually uneducated, are to infatuated with the "things of the world," or some such garbage like that. Heaven forbid they form their own opinions on government based on their own personal experiences.
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:30 am
Well I have news for bcspace and others like him....
I am a DNA Mormon, going back to Hyrum Smith brother of Joseph on one line, and an early church leader and close friend of Joseph Smith on the other. I am also an active Mormon today, my wife is also very active, and we are both registered Utah Democrats. My wife is a French convert, and sometimes finds the bcspaces of the church amusing, at other times they might trouble her a little bit (as when the Relief Society prez in our ward, in 2008, used the ward mailing list to send out an anti-Obama screed to all of the ward members).
You are starting to see more and more of us all the time. I notice that Larry Echohawk--former BYU law prof, also former Idaho Attorney General and one-time Democratic gubernatorial candidate for governor--has been called to be a Seventy. He joins at least two other Seventies who are known Democrats, Marlin K. Jensen and Steven Snow.
Some of us are Democrats partly as a reaction to the LDS bcspaces we encounter in Utah and elsewhere in the U.S. "Anything but that," we say to ourselves. I and my fellow LDS who are Democrats see Republican and Democratic politics a contest of interests rather than a contest of principles, or truths. This may be a cliché but it is nevertheless true, at least for us. We do not look on one party as the party of God, the other as the party of the Devil; rather we think that both parties are probably offensive to God, but we happen to find that the Democratic Party is less offensive to our moral sensibilities than the Republican Party. And so we identify as Democrats.
And now come the emails from bcspace and others like him challenging me to defend this position, asking me about this issue and that--and I am not going to answer. Sorry. For every challenge you throw at me, I could throw one back at you. And I am just not interested in doing that.
But, I will say this: as the Republican party continues to restrict and draw inwards and expel moderate elements, you will find more of us, i.e., active LDS Democrats.
I am a DNA Mormon, going back to Hyrum Smith brother of Joseph on one line, and an early church leader and close friend of Joseph Smith on the other. I am also an active Mormon today, my wife is also very active, and we are both registered Utah Democrats. My wife is a French convert, and sometimes finds the bcspaces of the church amusing, at other times they might trouble her a little bit (as when the Relief Society prez in our ward, in 2008, used the ward mailing list to send out an anti-Obama screed to all of the ward members).
You are starting to see more and more of us all the time. I notice that Larry Echohawk--former BYU law prof, also former Idaho Attorney General and one-time Democratic gubernatorial candidate for governor--has been called to be a Seventy. He joins at least two other Seventies who are known Democrats, Marlin K. Jensen and Steven Snow.
Some of us are Democrats partly as a reaction to the LDS bcspaces we encounter in Utah and elsewhere in the U.S. "Anything but that," we say to ourselves. I and my fellow LDS who are Democrats see Republican and Democratic politics a contest of interests rather than a contest of principles, or truths. This may be a cliché but it is nevertheless true, at least for us. We do not look on one party as the party of God, the other as the party of the Devil; rather we think that both parties are probably offensive to God, but we happen to find that the Democratic Party is less offensive to our moral sensibilities than the Republican Party. And so we identify as Democrats.
And now come the emails from bcspace and others like him challenging me to defend this position, asking me about this issue and that--and I am not going to answer. Sorry. For every challenge you throw at me, I could throw one back at you. And I am just not interested in doing that.
But, I will say this: as the Republican party continues to restrict and draw inwards and expel moderate elements, you will find more of us, i.e., active LDS Democrats.
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:35 am
More....
Sometimes we LDS Democrats also find in the words of modern prophets good reason to be Democrats, i.e., if we only have two choices, Republican or Democrat, we are going to choose Democrat. This is the way I felt when I listened to Pres. Kimball deliver the following address, "The False Gods we worship". I here attach a portion of this address as summarized by Hugh Nibley in his essay "We Will Still Weep For Zion":
Sometimes we LDS Democrats also find in the words of modern prophets good reason to be Democrats, i.e., if we only have two choices, Republican or Democrat, we are going to choose Democrat. This is the way I felt when I listened to Pres. Kimball deliver the following address, "The False Gods we worship". I here attach a portion of this address as summarized by Hugh Nibley in his essay "We Will Still Weep For Zion":
If we ask what improvement has been made up to the present, there is no better standard to judge by than that given by President Spencer W. Kimball in a solemn and inspired message to the church on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the nation.91 The address gives us a picture of the Church, the nation, and indeed the world that is a miracle of clarity and condensation, placing the physician's finger with unerring accuracy on the really important issues. First, by way of introduction, a general observation: "When I review the performance of this people in comparison with what is expected, I am appalled and frightened." Not a particularly cheerful or even optimistic message. What is it that so frightens and appalls the prophet? Three things in particular:
1. The abuse of the environment: "When I . . . fly over the vast and beautiful expanses of our globe, . . . I have the feeling that the good earth can hardly bear our presence upon it. . . . The Brethren constantly cry out against . . . pollution of mind, body, and our surroundings. . . . That such a cry should be necessary among a people so blessed is amazing to me."
2. The pursuit of personal affluence: "Carnal man has tended to transfer his trust in God to material things. . . . When men have fallen under the power of Satan and lost the faith, they have put in its place a hope in the 'arm of flesh' and in 'gods of silver, and gold, of brass,' . . . that is, in idols. . . . Many people spend most of their time working in the service of a self-image that includes sufficient money, stocks, bonds, investment portfolios, property, credit cards, furnishing, automobiles and the like to guarantee carnal security throughout, it is hoped, a long and happy life."
3. Trust in military security: "We commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become anti-enemy instead of pro-kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan's counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior's teaching. . . . What are we to fear when the Lord is with us? Can we not take the Lord at his word and exercise a particle of faith in him? . . . We must leave off the worship of modern-day idols and a reliance on the 'arm of flesh,' for the Lord has said to all the world in our day, 'I will not spare any that remain in Babylon' [D&C 64:24]."
And how did the Saints, who never tire of saying, "The Prophet! The Prophet! We have a prophet!" receive his words? As might be expected, reaction has ranged from careful indifference to embarrassed silence and instant deep freeze. As to the three things against which they were warned, it can be shown with cruel documentation that Utah leads the nation, at least through its representatives, in outspoken contempt for the environment, unabashed reverence for wealth, and ardent advocacy of military expansion.
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:16 am
I am sure BC has a perfectly good explanation for this. They must be wolves in sheep's clothing, mislead by evil spirits, flirting with apostasy, or they don't have a strong enough testimony, are spiritually uneducated, are to infatuated with the "things of the world," or some such garbage like that. Heaven forbid they form their own opinions on government based on their own personal experiences.
No. Heaven forbid they "support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
The Democratic Party is one such group. To be a Democrat is to support and agree with Socialism, gay marriage, peace at any cost, abortion, and third-wave or higher feminism, etc. all of which are in complete opposition to the fundamental or moral doctrines of the Church.
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:29 pm
bcspace wrote:To be a Democrat is to support and agree with Socialism, gay marriage, peace at any cost, abortion, and third-wave or higher feminism, etc. all of which are in complete opposition to the fundamental or moral doctrines of the Church.
Do you really believe Marlin K. Jensen supports all those things?
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:51 pm
bcspace wrote:No. Heaven forbid they "support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
The Democratic Party is one such group. To be a Democrat is to support and agree with Socialism, gay marriage, peace at any cost, abortion, and third-wave or higher feminism, etc. all of which are in complete opposition to the fundamental or moral doctrines of the Church.
Please tell me this guy is just trolling.
Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:54 pm
Henry McClean wrote:bcspace wrote:No. Heaven forbid they "support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
The Democratic Party is one such group. To be a Democrat is to support and agree with Socialism, gay marriage, peace at any cost, abortion, and third-wave or higher feminism, etc. all of which are in complete opposition to the fundamental or moral doctrines of the Church.
Please tell me this guy is just trolling.
No. He really does believe this.
