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If someone you knew was lying to his wife about being with multiple other women, would you trust them? Would you trust this person with your money? Would you trust them if they made supernatural claims?

How do you trust someone who believes they can lie to their spouse about something as serious as cheating? Why should one take his word on anything else he says? How do you know he doesn't take the exact same approach with you?

I'm sorry Mormons when it comes to Joseph Smith, I'm not feeling the honesty.

Do you care?

Regards,
Stormy Waters.

Excellent Point, Stormy.

On a related note, I want to ask my TBM family why, if polygamy was truly commanded of God, did Joseph Smith have to lie to Sidney Rigdon about his proposal to Sidney's daughter, Nancy?
I mean, wasn't Sydney the flippin' 1st Counsellor to the President? Wouldn't the entire First Presidency be privy to God's true commandments?

His lies to Sidney Rigdon over his polygamous proposal to Nancy make it absolutely clear that what he was doing was underhanded and unsupportable by any 'doctrine'.

Stormy Waters wrote:If someone you knew was lying to his wife about being with multiple other women, would you trust them? . . . How do you trust someone who believes they can lie to their spouse about something as serious as cheating?

In FAIRness, what man who is with multiple other women doesn't lie to his wife?

As I've said before on this forum, you don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed, did, didn't do, and so on. You believe him because God tells you to. Joseph Smith was an imperfect man and had many flaws. Usually he isn't guilty of the flaws the critics accuse him of, but he had flaws nevertheless. For a Mormon, that is really unimportant. It is what he tells us about God and what God revealed to him that is important. Everything else is between Joseph Smith and God and I'll let God judge him as God will judge us all.

Tobin wrote:As I've said before on this forum, you don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed, did, didn't do, and so on. You believe him because God tells you to. Joseph Smith was an imperfect man and had many flaws. Usually he isn't guilty of the flaws the critics accuse him of, but he had flaws nevertheless. For a Mormon, that is really unimportant. It is what he tells us about God and what God revealed to him that is important. Everything else is between Joseph Smith and God and I'll let God judge him as God will judge us all.

Jesus taught us how to judge prophets. Matthew 7:15-16 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" He didn't just tell us to ask God. I'm judging Joseph by his fruits.

Tobin wrote:As I've said before on this forum, you don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed, did, didn't do, and so on. You believe him because God tells you to. Joseph Smith was an imperfect man and had many flaws. Usually he isn't guilty of the flaws the critics accuse him of, but he had flaws nevertheless. For a Mormon, that is really unimportant. It is what he tells us about God and what God revealed to him that is important. Everything else is between Joseph Smith and God and I'll let God judge him as God will judge us all.

If that were the case, there would be no need for a faith promoting history. Discovering real history would not destroy the faith of so many people. It would be pretty cut and dried. But it is not. It takes a fair bit of self delusion to maintain faith that God commanded a scoundrel to act like a scoundrel in order to reveal the truth.

It would seem that, by Mormon criteria, God speaks loudest through morphine.

Stormy Waters wrote:

Tobin wrote:As I've said before on this forum, you don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed, did, didn't do, and so on. You believe him because God tells you to. Joseph Smith was an imperfect man and had many flaws. Usually he isn't guilty of the flaws the critics accuse him of, but he had flaws nevertheless. For a Mormon, that is really unimportant. It is what he tells us about God and what God revealed to him that is important. Everything else is between Joseph Smith and God and I'll let God judge him as God will judge us all.

Jesus taught us how to judge prophets. Matthew 7:15-16 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" He didn't just tell us to ask God. I'm judging Joseph by his fruits.

All "true" prophets of God teach one to seek after and speak with God do as he asks. Joseph Smith is no different. All those who are false prophets (many on this forum) will teach and preach against that. That is how you tell which is which and it has ever been that way.

Spanner wrote:

Tobin wrote:As I've said before on this forum, you don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed, did, didn't do, and so on. You believe him because God tells you to. Joseph Smith was an imperfect man and had many flaws. Usually he isn't guilty of the flaws the critics accuse him of, but he had flaws nevertheless. For a Mormon, that is really unimportant. It is what he tells us about God and what God revealed to him that is important. Everything else is between Joseph Smith and God and I'll let God judge him as God will judge us all.

If that were the case, there would be no need for a faith promoting history. Discovering real history would not destroy the faith of so many people. It would be pretty cut and dried. But it is not. It takes a fair bit of self delusion to maintain faith that God commanded a scoundrel to act like a scoundrel in order to reveal the truth.

It would seem that, by Mormon criteria, God speaks loudest through morphine.

Unless you know for a fact something happened or didn't happen, I'd be rather dubious of all "supposed" histories, biographies and so on. These accounts are at best imperfect and full of biases, prejudices, simplifications, agendas, and so on.

However, the message of Mormonism is still as simple and true as when it was first revealed. One should seek and speak with God and do what God tells you to do.

Tobin wrote:
All "true" prophets of God teach one to seek after and speak with God do as he asks. Joseph Smith is no different. All those who are false prophets (many on this forum) will teach and preach against that. That is how you tell which is which and it has ever been that way.

Tobin,

You are doing very poorly on this thread. Best to stop posting and hope the thread will drop below the fold.

Borrow a page from the Book of MAD and try to get the threads on which you look silly either closed or off the first page as soon as possible.

Just trying to help you out.

I like Shades' point. Just because a man drops his pants, doesn't mean he can't zip them up again.