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The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:53 pm
by _Gadianton
In a bizarre twist of fate, it turns out that the somewhat unique apologetic positions of Louis Midgley and David Bohn may have inadvertently played a part in the demise of the Maxwell Institute as an apologetics-oriented venue. In another thread, I've been credited with predicting the demise of the LTG within the MI, but it's noted that I was unaware of the causal factors. According to Bill Hamblin:

Hamblin wrote:his event concludes a nearly decade-long struggle for the soul of FARMS and the Institute. The contemporary Maxwell Institute is something quite different from the FARMS of ten years ago. (Note that only one of the five “directors” of the current Institute is actually involved in Book of Mormon Studies: http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/about/a ... ration.php). Astute observers will note that there has been a steady decline in both quantity and quality of Institute publications over the past few years.

They may also observe that most of the original core of FARMS scholars from a decade ago, including me, have nearly ceased publishing with the Institute, having been systematically marginalized, alienated, or ostracized by the Institute as it tried transform itself to conform with this new vision. Needless to say, most of the original FARMS scholars have been dismayed by this inexorable movement to remake the Maxwell Institute.


Well, gee guys, thanks for telling us all this was going on. We -- or at least I -- thought all was well in Zion. It's not like you folks have been particularly complimentary of the works here at Cassius on the MI's turn to read the Book of Mormon as "Moby Dick", the Mormon Studies re-imaging you're criticizing now. How come none of you said anything like, "Hey Dr. Scratch, you know, you're right, for the last decade, there has been this huge emphasis to study the Book of Mormon as a literary and cultural phenomena rather than a challenge to modern archeology and historiography, and the quality is really tanking. We're feeling the heat here, we can barely get anything published that deals with archeology!" When I said the LTG was dead within the MI via the circumstantial evidence from what would be its very last publication, how come you didn't jump up to give me a high five, as you're essentially saying the same thing I did, but with knowledge of the actual causal factors I was not privy to? I feel like Dr. Hamblin owes me a retroactive high five. If the situation were reversed, I would give Dr. Hamblin and J. Green a high five.

But the plot thickens. Why I never would have thought to make the call that there was a war going on internally between Mormon Studies and traditional apologetics given the huge amount of evidence for it, is that I just assumed the "Emperor" was behind the whole thing. Consider this tidbit I've posted before:

"In a sense, New Mormon historians challenge the foundational beliefs of Mormonism in a quest for professional rigor. Adding to Midgley’s complaint about objectivity, David Bohn argued that historians could never really be detached from their subject matter.27 Bohn and Midgley harassed New Mormon historians on BYU campus and followed some to their places of worship to argue the anti – modernist perspective and enlighten clergy and lay members of the dangerous teachings of New Mormon historians."

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewc ... _stwriting

Midgley and Bohn are the ones who brought the postmodernist influences to the MI in the first place. The foundations of "Mormon Studies" are the very insights of Midgley and Bohn, and Midgley has been posting forwards to the Review and postmodern arguments against critics right along side of the New Guard up until the very end. If anyone knew there was an unhappy tension here based on the publicly available evidence, I owe that person a big high five, because I missed it. But hindsight is 20/20, and a most stunning revelation comes from David Bohn's reflection on the matter at T&S:

http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/20 ... oncerning/

I hope you're all following along to here, because this revelation is staggering. Bohn, recall, is almost as much of a fan of Immanuel Levinas and Jacques Derrida as Mr. Stak, and uses their results to paint critics as men of violence (..to the letter!). But as it turns out, this guy's subtext runs much deeper than the war with critics, and it appears that he sees the binary opposition of good and evil as a general structure within the world, where bad=modern and good=postmodern. In this case, good=his apologist friends, bad=the Mormon Studies faction. It really ties your brain in knots, look at this closing sentiment:

"It would be a terrible loss if the Institute’s mission were reduced to only a “safe” and narrowly defined program involving the digitalization and study of ancient texts.."

Wait, hold on a sec here. What about the papers by Bradshaw promoting William James the pragmatist (you know, Derrida, Levinas, ...James?). What about the 10-year long power struggle Hamblin called out that Bohn himself cited, and the taking over of the Review as a Mormon Studies publication that barely allows contributions from the original team? The taking over of the Review with articles devoted to the the kind of postmodern interpretation of Mormonism that he and Migdley brought to the MI? He's totally missing this.

About the "New Guard", he says:

Bohn wrote:•others might hold that because the prejudice which enshrines neutrality is so wide spread among researchers, the work at the Institute will only gain currency if its framing language reflects such an objectivist bias..
•most might argue that, without being disingenuous, adopting elements of the well-mannered idiom associated with the neutralist’s position has the advantage of reducing the edge of exchanges with those somewhat antagonistic to Mormonism, while still gaining the respect of fellow academics and the broader non-Mormon readership.


This totally misses the mark. The "neutrality" of the New Guard is not rooted in methodological naturalism, but in the "theoretical" underpinnings of Derrida and others he himself has brought to attention of LDS scholars that a "text" does not have a fundamental interpretation. In other words, Bohn is totally wrong to see the New Guard as enlightenment boogeymen who, as critics, only believe in science and in this case, therefore, stick to easy stuff like digitizing texts. The New Guard appear ready to full-on take up his and Migdley's anti-enlightenment project! It's the New Guard that realize apologetics -- dispite Bohn's protests to the contrary -- is trapped in the enlightenment. Some have pointed out one of Bohn's failures in the comments section, that FARMS's evidential approach to justifying scripture isn't much different than the critic's approach to denying it, in broad terms of classifying the kind of arguments. Just because FARMS might use rhetoric to downplay "truth" and critics might use rhetoric that extols "truth" doesn't count for much in my opinion. Well, my opinion doesn't matter much, let the Yale-conference inspired tactics of the New Guard speak for itself. Mormon Studies, like Religious Studies, is "beyond" debates over archeology, Mormon Sudies will dismiss Mopologetics just as Religious Studies dismisses overt Christian apologetics. While the comment section properly questioned Bohn's classification of FARMS as post-enlightenment, I didn't see that it dealt with his bigger blindspot, the reality is, the Mormon Studies faction is best described as the maturing of his own anti-enlightenment brainchild.

The ideology that Bohn and Migdley brought to the MI, ironically, in the hands of others, has overthrown the institution as a traditional apologetics organization.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:48 pm
by _lulu
Gadiaton wrote:that FARMS's evidential approach to justifying scripture isn't much different than the critic's approach to denying it, in broad terms of classifying the kind of arguments.


I'm a curious enough guy to wonder what a thorough going postmodern defense of Mormonism would look like. And I don't consider passing references to Kuhn as thorough going. I don't have the brain power or the education to do it. And even if I could, my non-"neutrality" would lead me to the other side lol. But I'd enjoy reading it, if it were well done. Although I might have to read it veerry sloowly.

But I doubt that it would be anything that would attract a mass audience which is what a mass audience focussed missionary religion needs.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:51 pm
by _Gadianton
Well Lulu, I'm not sure that all agree a mass audience needs the apologetics aproach. Just look at the missionary program, are missionaries taught to bring in evidence to counter claims against the Church?

But what attracts a mass audience to High Nibley and Sorenson? When I've reviewed some of the Review's articles, I'll admit they can get pretty technical and protracted, I have a tough time following it all the way through. the masses need to know that smart people buy into to it, the content of the books don't really matter, they can just rest on the shelf unread.

FAIR is actually a better venue for distributing material that the average person can relate to. Whether it does more harm than good in the long run, I don't know. The Church clearly questions the value of it, otherwise it would be subsized far more than it has been.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:17 am
by _lulu
Gadianton wrote:Well Lulu, I'm not sure that all agree a mass audience needs the apologetics aproach. Just look at the missionary program, are missionaries taught to bring in evidence to counter claims against the Church?

But what attracts a mass audience to High Nibley and Sorenson? When I've reviewed some of the Review's articles, I'll admit they can get pretty technical and protracted, I have a tough time following it all the way through. the masses need to know that smart people buy into to it, the content of the books don't really matter, they can just rest on the shelf unread.

FAIR is actually a better venue for distributing material that the average person can relate to. Whether it does more harm than good in the long run, I don't know. The Church clearly questions the value of it, otherwise it would be subsized far more than it has been.

I don't think I'd say Nibley and Sorenson attract a mass audience. They attract an audience necessary to the church's financial health. But I don't think yesterday's converts in any industrialized nations' "inner" city or in the 3rd world are attracted to them. They are attracted to something else. Presumably the church's marketing arm has firgured out what that is, or not.

I don't think a post modern approach to the Book of Mormon would make much difference in convert baptisms. It might make a difference in shoring up the base. The interplay between the intelligentsia, the funders and converts might be more complex than I can figure out. I think the base/funders need to know the converts are coming in.

But the religions that grow, at least in the US, are the ones that keep it simple. A postmodern approach to the Book of Mormon wouldn't be simple. Isn't simplicity the point of The Churching of America? It's not understanding the chemical complexities of the soap that makes you buy it, although someone has to understand them.

But serious, ever since I took my first Protestant seminary class about 20 years ago, I've wondered what a postmodern approach to the Book of Mormon would look like. Time in law school taught me to try and image the argument of the other side. But in this case I've never been able to.

I probably won't be able to sleep tonight.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:40 am
by _Gadianton
Do Nibley and Sorenson clearly attract an audience necessary to the church's financial health? I dispute this only because if this were the case, the Brethren would not have allowed the MI to be reformed. If it's about money....'ya know how the Brethren quickly get interested.

I think the brethren and MI are acknolwedging their belief that intellectualism of any types do not seem to help with convert baptisms. I don't think they believe a Mormon Studies MI will directly lead to convert baptisms. I don't think that's their goal.

As close as one might get to a postmodern approach to the Book of Mormon by a believing Member is Grant Hardy's book (others here are far more knowledgeable about what's on the shelves out there though). I think his work is really fascinating in this regard. Postmodernism is/was used to take the wind out of the sails of the status quo. So generally speaking, a postmodern interpretation of the Book of Mormon would tend to be critical of the Book of Mormon, not supportive of it. Rather, postmodernism would be used by pro-LDS to deconstruct a world of oppression that doesn't allow the Book of Mormon's unique voice to be heard. But even as far as that goes with Mormon Studies, we're dealing with stuff that's way watered down from the actual postmodern movements from a long time ago. It's more like, Mormon Studies contemplates Mormonism in the wake of postmodernism already having done its job turning the academic world upside down (assuming such a thing actually happened). I don't mean to say that the new MI will produce actual full-blown postmodernism -- if it does, I'll be as interested in how they play that angle as you are -- but more like, postmodernism is what legitimizes the "narrative" approach to Mormonism. And there is a growing repository of this kind of work accumulating.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:05 am
by _lulu
Gadianton wrote:Do Nibley and Sorenson clearly attract an audience necessary to the church's financial health? I dispute this only because if this were the case, the Brethren would not have allowed the MI to be reformed. If it's about money....'ya know how the Brethren quickly get interested.
Was the reformation of MI (I kinda like that phrase) a rejection of Nibley and Sorenson, or just of DCP, Hamilton and Midgley?

Gadianton wrote:I think the brethren and MI are acknolwedging their belief that intellectualism of any types do not seem to help with convert baptisms. I don't think they believe a Mormon Studies MI will directly lead to convert baptisms. I don't think that's their goal.
Not directly with convert baptisms, true. But the Mormon elite with money, principally in the intermountain west and west coast, need a little intellectualism to under pin their tithe paying ways?

Gadianton wrote:As close as one might get to a postmodern approach to the Book of Mormon by a believing Member is Grant Hardy's book (others here are far more knowledgeable about what's on the shelves out there though). I think his work is really fascinating in this regard.

Thanks for the tip on Hardy.
Gadianton wrote:Postmodernism is/was used to take the wind out of the sails of the status quo. So generally speaking, a postmodern interpretation of the Book of Mormon would tend to be critical of the Book of Mormon, not supportive of it.
True, and yet
Gadianton wrote:Rather, postmodernism would be used by pro-LDS to deconstruct a world of oppression that doesn't allow the Book of Mormon's unique voice to be heard.
But then again, who's oppressed in UT county without their voice being heard. It seems to work both ways. Could anyone bring that together?

But I guess what I'm wondering, is could one go beyond Hardy's bracketing of the Book of Mormon's historicity and raise any worthwhile questions about historicity itself? Seems improbable doesn't it.


Gadianton wrote:But even as far as that goes with Mormon Studies, we're dealing with stuff that's way watered down from the actual postmodern movements from a long time ago. It's more like, Mormon Studies contemplates Mormonism in the wake of postmodernism already having done its job turning the academic world upside down (assuming such a thing actually happened). I don't mean to say that the new MI will produce actual full-blown postmodernism -- if it does, I'll be as interested in how they play that angle as you are -- but more like, postmodernism is what legitimizes the "narrative" approach to Mormonism.

Ah, actual full blown postmodernism, I'm both facinated about and fearful of Mormonism ever finding its "St. Augustine."

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:28 am
by _Gadianton
But I guess what I'm wondering, is could one go beyond Hardy's bracketing of the Book of Mormon's historicity and raise any worthwhile questions about historicity itself? Seems improbable doesn't it.


Well, I meant more than just ignoring historicity itself. That's one thing. Even more important is how he "reads against the grain" the way postmodernists do to squeeze out insights and lay bare assumptions and so on. He's not just trying to sweep the question of history under the rug, but get beyond the superficial primary-level reading of Church members. This is hard to do because the Book of Mormon was obviously written by someone trying to make the world very black and white. A much more sophisticated questioning of the text is then called for to get something deep out of it.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:32 am
by _sock puppet
Gadianton wrote:...the Book of Mormon was obviously written by someone trying to make the world very black and white. A much more sophisticated questioning of the text is then called for to get something deep out of it.

Are you, Dean, suggesting there's something accidentally in the text that has some sophisticated value?

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:17 pm
by _Cicero
Gadianton wrote:About the "New Guard", he says:

Bohn wrote:•others might hold that because the prejudice which enshrines neutrality is so wide spread among researchers, the work at the Institute will only gain currency if its framing language reflects such an objectivist bias..
•most might argue that, without being disingenuous, adopting elements of the well-mannered idiom associated with the neutralist’s position has the advantage of reducing the edge of exchanges with those somewhat antagonistic to Mormonism, while still gaining the respect of fellow academics and the broader non-Mormon readership.


This totally misses the mark. The "neutrality" of the New Guard is not rooted in methodological naturalism, but in the "theoretical" underpinnings of Derrida and others he himself has brought to attention of LDS scholars that a "text" does not have a fundamental interpretation. In other words, Bohn is totally wrong to see the New Guard as enlightenment boogeymen who, as critics, only believe in science and in this case, therefore, stick to easy stuff like digitizing texts. The New Guard appear ready to full-on take up his and Migdley's anti-enlightenment project! It's the New Guard that realize apologetics -- dispite Bohn's protests to the contrary -- is trapped in the enlightenment. Some have pointed out one of Bohn's failures in the comments section, that FARMS's evidential approach to justifying scripture isn't much different than the critic's approach to denying it, in broad terms of classifying the kind of arguments. Just because FARMS might use rhetoric to downplay "truth" and critics might use rhetoric that extols "truth" doesn't count for much in my opinion.


This

Gadianton: I don't think this is exactly what you are talking about, but what do you think of all the so called "postmodernist" defenses of Mormonism that keep popping up so much lately? Take, for example, this recent thread on MD&D If you can read it (http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/58445-is-mormonism-and-science-compatible-attn-bcspace/page__hl__bcspace) especially focusing on posts from Kevin Christensen and mfbukowski. You can also hear similar arguments made by folks like Philip Barlow and Richard Bushman (see Barlow's recently posted Mormon Stories interview). Is it related to the point you are making above that I quoted or is that a separate issue?

Blixa called it "vulgar" postmodernism in a chat discussion recently, and I think that is indeed the perfect word for it.

Re: The Midgley-Bohn Misalignment

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:54 am
by _Gadianton
Are you, Dean, suggesting there's something accidentally in the text that has some sophisticated value?


No! lol. Do you wish me to be the laughing stock of academia? ...then again it depends on what you mean by text.

Let's say I write a simple story about a super righteous guy who is confronted by an unbeliever, an unimaginative stereotype to reinforce all the BS my intended audience already believes about right and wrong. A sly English student from a liberal arts school might pick up this story and interpret it such that the hero gets knocked down a few pegs for being a self-righteous prick -- by standards accepted by the intended audience -- and the villain turns out to be not quite as bad due to perhaps circumstances the author put him in but didn't account for -- "blind spots". This would be a "subversive" reading of the story. Now, the English student's study of the story might be pretty darn clever and interesting when compared to the intended meaning. Would that mean the "text" was really sophisticated after all?

Not necessarily. It could show how utterly unreflective the author is. But "text" for postmodernists could mean something far more encompassing than the story itself, the entire set of preconditions for thought and communication even, so sure, that's probably sophisticated. But since every story ever written is part of this "text", the story itself isn't necessarily deep if we're grading on the curve.

To me, this is what Hardy has done. The guy's a freaking genius for thinking of it too. Wait: why would Hardy want to take the place of the nay-saying English student out to take a religious homily down a notch? If it's not obvious, then give the man credit where credit is due for thinking of this, it's brilliant. Simplistic good vs. bad plots aren't interesting to the masses let alone scholars. No scholar wants a sermon on the blessings of obeying church authorities blindly. But a complex scenario demonstrating how intertwined good and evil can become? Possibly. And if the Book of Mormon can be that demonstration, more scholars will like it. Today's heroes are more complicated than the were twenty years ago. People have graduated from Chips and like The Wire, The Shield, Breaking Bad. Moroni, the knight in shining armor is boring, Hardy turns him into something like The Dark Knight - he's hardcore and a complete asshole. So the Book of Mormon gains credibility in Mormon Studies if it's not "true," parroting good upright-living ideals and examples, but if it's dark and edgy, controversial, and existential. But the book itself need not be any of these, the "text" that makes the book possible can be those things, and the interpreter can take advantage of this.