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I'm not talking about the sincere people who honestly present evidence they believe supports the LDS church, and there are plenty of those. I mean the strange beast that is mopologetics: the bizarre need to use any and all tactics, no matter how dishonest and/or cruel, to not only support the LDS church but to destroy, as thoroughly as possible, those who would sow doubt.

I don't use the word "evil" lightly, and I hesitate to call an individual evil, but clearly, much of what passes for apologetics is evil. Even if we believe in the LDS church--in fact, particularly if we believe in the church--we should not be afraid to identify behavior that crosses a line. I have and will continue to call out bad behavior among critics, but I reserve the right to apply the same standards to apologists.

If you can't win by stating correct facts, just whine and blabber, thrashing about on the floor with cries of "Mormon persecution" and similar weasel tactics. They know, for the most part, that their position is indefensible.

The main problem with Mormon apologetics is that none of it matters. The LDS church prides itself on having authority from God to act on his behalf. LDS GA’s are constantly reminding the members and the world that they and only they can speak for God on matters of Church Doctrine. Self appointed apologists can say anything they want but none of it holds any water because it is not the official church position. The fact that some of the LDS GA’s are willing hide behind what some apologist say without taking any responsibility for what is being said so they can pull the “speaking as a man” card in case someone says something too out of line just does not change anything.

I don’t agree with most (all?) of what BRM and BKP ever said but at least they had the balls to get up and say what they really thought even if the boys in the COB are quick to rush in and “clarify”

We would do well to stop giving Mormon apologists any credence at all.

son of Ishmael wrote:The main problem with Mormon apologetics is that none of it matters. ...

We would do well to stop giving Mormon apologists any credence at all.

Yup. It's all just wasted effort on nothing of value or importance. It just makes it worse that they use dishonesty and hate for something worthless.

Having them around is a win win for the GA's. If something they say keeps someone in the church and paying tithing then great. if they say something that blows back on the Church they can claim that the person is not speaking for the church and throw them under the bus.

son of Ishmael wrote:Having them around is a win win for the GA's. If something they say keeps someone in the church and paying tithing then great. if they say something that blows back on the Church they can claim that the person is not speaking for the church and throw them under the bus.

Unfortunately, they do much more of the latter than the former. The simple fact is that they don't care about the effects their actions and words have on members of the church. The need to be "right" and feel superior Trump's any consideration for the damage done to other church members.

Bob Loblaw wrote:

son of Ishmael wrote:Having them around is a win win for the GA's. If something they say keeps someone in the church and paying tithing then great. if they say something that blows back on the Church they can claim that the person is not speaking for the church and throw them under the bus.

Unfortunately, they do much more of the latter than the former. The simple fact is that they don't care about the effects their actions and words have on members of the church. The need to be "right" and feel superior Trump's any consideration for the damage done to other church members.

"The need to be "right" and feel superior..." Very good point. Their own personal testimonies hang on them being right every time. If they ever concede a point no matter how small, it creates a chink in their armor.

son of Ishmael wrote:"The need to be "right" and feel superior..." Very good point. Their own personal testimonies hang on them being right every time. If they ever concede a point no matter how small, it creates a chink in their armor.

That is one of the character traits that separates apologists from mopologists. Apologists are honest, and when a critic is right, they concede the point. Mopologists never concede anything. Exhibit A is Pahoran's pathetic attempt to justify sharing MsJack's PM publicly. An honest person would say, "I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry." But Rusty can't be bothered because to admit a mistake is to appear weak.

Yes: by definition, Mopologetics is "evil." That's because it's different from basic apologetics, which is simply a defense of the faith. Thus there is a noticeable gulf between something "apologetic," like, say, Rough Stone Rolling, and, e.g., "Text and Context," or the latest Midgley piece in the MI. Mopologists don't really have any remaining decency or scruples--they've cast aside the etiquette of normal scholarly (or, heck, just normal day-to-day) interaction in favor of ad hominem attack, smear campaigns, character assassination, and "hit pieces." There is no "good" in this; it is entirely about revenge. It's not about saving people's testimonies (or, at least, it is only tangentially about this); it's not about defending the Restored Gospel. It's about the seriously misguided hope that they can stomp the everliving bejesus out of Church critics. It's about them taking out all the old grudges that the feel over getting made fun of for believing in Mormonism.

This isn't to say that the Mopologists don't also do regular apologetics. I would just say that, by definition, "Mopologetics" is the "defense of the faith" that crosses over into genuinely bad and unscrupulous behavior.

Bob Loblaw wrote: I mean the strange beast that is mopologetics: the bizarre need to use any and all tactics, no matter how dishonest and/or cruel ...

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