DiscussMormonism.com

For your consideration...
http://mormonstories.org/other/FAIRKSLAd.mp3

Good luck to them. I think that they need to rethink their entire operation.

Notice the answers are called faithful, not truthful.

FAIR is more concerned about temporal answers than "faith". Even DCP published an article wherein realizing he was focusing entirely on temporal physical evidence he had to put in a line or two about faith.

The modern day FAIRisees, like the the pharisees of the Bible, look for the temporal to uphold their position.

Unintentionally funny bit:

Female voice says, "FAIR was important to me because I found that that intelligent and reasonable people believed in Mormonism..."

Unlike the unintelligent and unreasonable Mormons she knew about before FAIR? Unlike the people in her ward? Her family? Her community?

I'm thinking that wasn't the best way to phrase the point they wanted to make.

mercyngrace wrote:Unintentionally funny bit:

Female voice says, "FAIR was important to me because I found that that intelligent and reasonable people believed in Mormonism..."

Unlike the unintelligent and unreasonable Mormons she knew about before FAIR? Unlike the people in her ward? Her family? Her community?

I'm thinking that wasn't the best way to phrase the point they wanted to make.

No kidding. Good grief.

And I think this is indicative of larger issues regarding their approach to apologetics.

I too don't like the objective of FAIR. If they were dedicated to just presenting the facts FAIRly, I could get behind it. It is when they wander off and try to explain away uncomfortable facts and simply repeat a position of the Church that may not be reasonable that I'm very bothered by FAIR. Mormonism should be about getting the best information possible, carefully and thoughtfully considering it, and asking God for divine inspiration on what is best to do about it. Apologetics (especially Mormon apologetics) is often at conflict with that.

mercyngrace wrote:Unintentionally funny bit:

Female voice says, "FAIR was important to me because I found that that intelligent and reasonable people believed in Mormonism..."

Unlike the unintelligent and unreasonable Mormons she knew about before FAIR? Unlike the people in her ward? Her family? Her community?

I'm thinking that wasn't the best way to phrase the point they wanted to make.

While I was active, I knew that as long as Hugh Nibley believed the Church was true, that was proof, to me, that it was. I have recently been reading some of his articles in the Improvement Era from 1968 defending the recently found papyri against comments made by Egyptologists in 1912 in the Spaulding Pamphlet. His defense through the first 5-6 monthly installments seems to be "Hey really smart guys are not always right."
Ironically I agree with him.

mercyngrace wrote:Unintentionally funny bit:

Female voice says, "FAIR was important to me because I found that that intelligent and reasonable people believed in Mormonism..."

Unlike the unintelligent and unreasonable Mormons she knew about before FAIR? Unlike the people in her ward? Her family? Her community?

I'm thinking that wasn't the best way to phrase the point they wanted to make.

I do not think this is at all an intellectual deal. Heaven forbid. Mormons are concerned only about one thing. The illusion of feeling like they are worthy. To question anything is a worthy buster. The "spirit" of the LDS Church is this accepted notion of their worthiness, individually and as a group. If you doubt it just listen to as much conference as you can stomach and notice how very often the worthiness of the members and leaders is validated. Like every time a GA gets quoted it is a validation of that GA's worthiness. As it is also a validation of the speakers worthiness to be able to realize that the GA is worthy, and then it is a validation of the audience's worthiness that they all say, AMEN. Even after taking the name of the Lord in vain. For these never do speak by the power of Christ. Therefore it is not of him or by his power and will be shaken and ..........ya know.............

Every guideline LDS leadership preaches can cause a Mormon to feel unworthy making any misbehavior a spirit buster. But happy day the loss of this delusion of worthiness is simply fixed by partaking of the sacrament. Big sin little sin no matter just "renew" your covenant. After 180 years you would think somebody would notice that Christ said it cannot be renewed lest you put Christ to open shame. But no matter, they have their righteous image crafted after the manner of the world which is their idol.

I guess I will explain the contrary truth of what goes on if a true saint falters. He does not lose the Spirit as it may be very needed to make the saint aware of his weakness. He is not renewing his covenant when he awakens to greater diligence to remember Christ in all his ways. What he is doing is picking up the weight and continuing where he left off. The grace of Christ keeps a saint worthy regardless and he is never reset to renew or start over. The Spirit will not leave him. Not until he utterly falls away and sins against the Holy Ghost.

Important to note that true saints do not sin like the NEVER GOT IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE PRETENDERS do. The sin of saints is more when they fail to notice the will of the Father and neglect it. You see, true saints sacrifice their free will and agency in a covenant with Christ and sometimes you get distracted and life is cumbersome and you realize you are out of place and not where you should be. This sort of sin would not even register on hypocrisy's radar. Not of their world.

So lightly they are worthy and even more lightly they are renewed to worthiness. All LDS leadership has to do to control behaviors is to tie the lead to worthiness. This can be done oppositely by reinforcing all acceptable behavior to a reward of validating worthiness.

BE WORTHY ALRIGHT
AND THE SPIRIT MUST FOLLOW
ARROGANCE IS REALLY ALL THAT THIS IS

AND WITH OUT HEART
THE SAME FOR TOMORROW
ALWAYS BE WORTHY
AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT

Notice the answers are called faithful, not truthful.

They are synonymous. Alma 32:21