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Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthink

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:40 pm
by _Alter Idem
For those who've been following events surrounding Mormonthink and David Twede, Scott Gordon published a statement about the Mormonthink events in the Sept. Fair journal. I thought some here might be interested in reading it.

MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT

A pending church disciplinary council for the editor of the MormonThink website created a media uproar these past couple of weeks and my name and FAIR shows up in several of those articles.
MormonThink is an anti-Mormon website that claims to be balanced. But, it hosts temple content and the editors have stated that they hope to lead people out of the Church. We have an extensive discussion of the MormonThink website here:
A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink
Many people have asked how I got involved in the media articles. I thought I should share those details with you.
David Twede, the new managing editor of MormonThink, announced that he was going to go back to church to give MormonThink more credibility. Twede wrote, “Going to church, as current managing editor … is for me to both build perspective…and to increase [MormonThink's] credibility.” An earlier MormonThink editor also stated, “So that is one of the reasons I remain in the church. It gives me greater credibility when I speak about my own religion instead of it being my former religion. By subtly mentioning things in meetings I may raise some doubts.” Twede stated his intent was to go back to church and to blog about it.
My friend Dan Peterson once quipped, “When you write on the Internet, you are sharing your private thoughts with a few thousand of your closest friends.” I, along with everyone else, was able to read what David Twede was writing. He started blogging under a pseudonym, but then he, or someone who used a Twede family e-mail address, announced his real name on another Internet message board.
I hoped that his going back to church might soften his heart and bring back some of those feelings he had in the past. But from what he wrote on his blog, I didn’t see that happening. Instead he wrote about getting close to one ward member and providing information to him to cause doubts. He wrote, “We’ve exchanged phone numbers and were talking about many other issues. Pat shared some of these with the spouse and now they might both be having serious doubts. I will have to be careful on Sunday not to give them or myself away.” Twede writes further, “There is also a possibility that the woman I talked with at the end of the meeting might be open to discussing some issues.” From what he wrote, Twede appeared to be secretly engaged in a deceptive campaign to destroy the faith of members and lead them out of the Church.
I forwarded the links of that public blog to some of my friends. The New York Times reporter who called said my email was forwarded to Twede’s stake president. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not. I did not speak with any of his local leaders, nor did I send an email to them. I told the reporter it was more likely one of his local ward members had read his public blog and told the stake president, but she insisted I was the source as she heard that from David Twede himself.
Twede was called in by his stake president to discuss the appropriateness of his actions. Then David Twede called the press. His claim was that he was being excommunicated because he had written negative things about Mitt Romney. He admitted to the reporters that his stake president had not actually said anything about Mitt Romney, but stated in his press release, “I felt in my gut that the Romney pieces were a part of why this happened.”
Because my e-mail that linked to his public blog was reportedly forwarded, I have received e-mails with several colorful expressions describing my actions. Most of those comments I cannot repeat. It has also been a point of discussion on several Internet message boards. On one I was called a “rat fink pool of vomit.” One of my Catholic co-workers laughingly suggested I should make that title a new name plate for my door. On another message board, Twede’s supporters posted information and negative comments about me, my work, and my wife. They made disparaging comments about the community college where I teach and claimed that FAIR was housed at the Institute of Religion across the street. I’m not sure where they got that idea, but it is false.
It would be easy to make negative comments about this whole process. But, I want to wish David Twede the best. I hope at some point he finds peace. My advice about faith, which I give to everyone, would be to make your choice and move on. Maybe that would allow for some healing.
Here are links to some of the many articles.

New York Times, “Editor of Web Site May Face Mormon Excommunication” By Laurie Goodstein
Orlando Sentinel, “Mormon writer critical of Mitt Romney says he faces excommunication” By Stephen Hudak
CNN, “Mormon blogger says he faces church slap-down, possible excommunication” By Jessica Ravitz
NPR, “‘Mormon Moment’ Marked By Mischief And Meanness” By R.B. Scott
Salt Lake Tribune, Disciplinary hearing delayed for Mormon blogger By Peggy Fletcher Stack
Deseret News, “LDS Church says disciplinary claim is ‘patently false’” By Joseph Walker
Huffington Post, “David Twede, Mormon Blogger And Romney Critic Threatened With Excommunication, Will Have To Wait To Hear Fate (UPDATE)” By Jaweed Kaleem

–Scott Gordon President of FAIR

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:50 pm
by _3sheets2thewind
Notice the Scott "the liar" Gordon, does not provide one bit of evidence that Twede was hoping to lead people out of the Church.

By Scott "the liar" Gordon standards I am an apostate and so is one of the clerks in my ward. We have talked about corporate America making Home Teaching more about numbers, we talked about Joseph Smother polygamy and him shooting three people, and we talked about people can not ask questions in Church or ask other members with some Gawddammed asshole like Gordon coming along with his witch hunt.

Gordon is a documented speaker of falsehood and has no credibility.

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:58 pm
by _Alter Idem
3sheets2thewind wrote:Notice the Scott "the liar" Gordon, does not provide one bit of evidence that Twede was hoping to lead people out of the Church.


This was a statement 3sheets. I don't think it was supposed to be in depth. If you want evidence of what Mormonthink's purpose is, go look at the website.

By Scott "the liar" Gordon standards I am an apostate and so is one of the clerks in my ward. We have talked about corporate America making Home Teaching more about numbers, we talked about Joseph Smother polygamy and him shooting three people, and we talked about people can not ask questions in Church or ask other members with some Gawddammed asshole like Gordon coming along with his witch hunt.

Gordon is a documented speaker of falsehood and has no credibility.


Um, okay......

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:09 pm
by _consiglieri
My friend Dan Peterson once quipped, “When you write on the Internet, you are sharing your private thoughts with a few thousand of your closest friends.”



?

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 pm
by _3sheets2thewind
by "the liars" standard those who discuss issue need to be reported to their priesthood leaders, the Strengthening Membership Committee, and the COB. We all can thank "the liar" for maintaining an atmosphere in the Church where silence is truely golden and no one can ask questions.

As for documentation of "the liars" falsehood, please see the thread about his falsehoods at a presentation he did at UVU.

He also maintains without proof that Mormons lost their jobs for supporting prop 8

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:13 pm
by _lulu
where is the FAIR headquarters?

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:26 pm
by _3sheets2thewind
Here 50.28.68.18

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:38 pm
by _Doctor Scratch
consiglieri wrote:
My friend Dan Peterson once quipped, “When you write on the Internet, you are sharing your private thoughts with a few thousand of your closest friends.”



?


This is Gordon's way of addressing what he, Trevor Holyoak, and the other Mopologists were doing. He's saying, in effect, "Hey, if you post this online, we have the right to look at it, collect it, send it to SLC, and use it against you." I'd be much more interested in hearing him express himself in a less passive way. I.e., what was it that he thinks *he* was doing? "Outing" a wolf in sheep's clothing? While I can understand why Gordon and his "Mormon Defense League" crew might have a problem or two with what Twede was saying/doing, the fact is that you can't really jump to the conclusion that he was deliberately trying to "lead people out of the Church," as Gordon says. The quotes from Twede say that he was causing "doubt." Does that equate to "leading people out of the Church"? I guess from one perspective it does; from another, it's just a matter of acquainting people with the truth.

Gordon says other hazy things as well:

I forwarded the links of that public blog to some of my friends.


First of all, he's clearly making sure to qualify that it's a "public" blog because he's self-conscious about being labeled a "stalker." They were looking at this and basically "conducting surveillance" and putting together a dossier to send off to these people whom Gordon says are just "some of my friends." Who, though? The Brethren? People at the SCMC? Which "friends" of his were in a position to forward the "concerns" to Twede's local leaders? Further, how many of us here have "friends" that we can send dossiers to in order to get Latter-day Saints into this kind of trouble?

Because my e-mail that linked to his public blog was reportedly forwarded, I have received e-mails with several colorful expressions describing my actions.


Forwarded to whom? Twede? This is, for me, the most problematic:

It would be easy to make negative comments about this whole process. But, I want to wish David Twede the best. I hope at some point he finds peace. My advice about faith, which I give to everyone, would be to make your choice and move on. Maybe that would allow for some healing.


That's the point, isn't it? Gordon wants troubled people to "move on," by which I guess he means, "take a permanent hike, and keep your mouth shut." I can sympathize with the views expressed by Kishkumen on another thread, that Twede is "rotten" (or whatever) if he was genuinely trying to "set up" or "punk" the Church. But the fact remains, he wouldn't have been able to do this (if in fact this is what he was doing) if the Church would quit dragging its feet and do a better job of educating the Saints. This is why Gordon's comment about faith is so problematic: you don't just "make your choice." You learn new things; you evolve; you make discoveries and realizations. Faith is *supposed* to be a means of reconciling uncertainties, and yet these hard-line Mopologists seem bent on insisting that you "choose" one way or the other: either you look at the Fanny Alger material, or the Book of Abraham, or whatever else, and you "choose" to have standard-issue, TBM faith, or you take a hike. The Church has been pretty terrible in terms of positioning the Saints in such a way that they can deal with the many, many problems related to LDS doctrine and history--it's an actualization of the old saying, "He who hesitates is lost." The Brethren and Church bureaucracy have been dragging their feet for so long that the fallout is just going to keep torturing people like Gordon, who think they've been "called" to defend the faith.

On the one hand, you can't help but sympathize with people like the FAIR Wiki folks who want to educate and provide quality information. But this shouldn't be coming from FAIR--it should be coming from the Church itself. Plus, the atmosphere at FAIR and the people involved are all just too toxic--it's too much bound up in the war-like mentality that prevailed at FARMS/SHIELDS. I don't think that they're ever going to be able to come at this situation in a productive way. Gordon himself may be best served by choosing to "move on," ironically enough.

In the end, though, that's the elephant in the room: it is the raw failure of the Church itself to educate and "inoculate" the Saints. In order to do that, you flat-out have to allow for uncertainty and doubt--you just can't come at many of these issues without this. Faith should then be a means of dealing with the doubts, rather than ignoring them, covering them up, or making excuses. And faith especially should not be used as a rationale for stalking people, creating "creepy dossiers" on them, and forwarding these things to the All-Seeing Eye in SLC.

I wonder: why didn't Scott Gordon first try to simply talk to Twede? I see no indication that the thought ever even occurred to him.

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:01 am
by _The Mighty Builder
Mormon Jesus is a Press Pussy. Unlike righteous causes, every time (and I MEAN EVERY TIME) Mormon Jesus' actions are reported in the Press, poof, it never happens, wasn't supposed to happen, can't happen, etc. WHAT A PUSSY.

Standing for Something my ASS!

Re: Scott Gordon speaks out about events involving Mormonthi

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:08 am
by _Kishkumen
Doctor Scratch wrote:In the end, though, that's the elephant in the room: it is the raw failure of the Church itself to educate and "inoculate" the Saints. In order to do that, you flat-out have to allow for uncertainty and doubt--you just can't come at many of these issues without this. Faith should then be a means of dealing with the doubts, rather than ignoring them, covering them up, or making excuses. And faith especially should not be used as a rationale for stalking people, creating "creepy dossiers" on them, and forwarding these things to the All-Seeing Eye in Salt Lake City.

I wonder: why didn't Scott Gordon first try to simply talk to Twede? I see no indication that the thought ever even occurred to him.


Well said, Doctor. The LDS Church has a real pedagogical problem on its hands, and it has failed miserably at dealing with it. The reason a site like Twede's is such a problem for the Church is that the responses to these issues coming from the Church and its apologetic surrogates are woefully inadequate to the task. I feel badly for them, but, on the other hand, now that the genie of information is out of the bottle, the time has long since passed when they should have found better approaches to dealing with this fact.

How do they deal with it? At present they take the very people they let down and they excommunicate them for expressing their anger in a manner the LDS Church finds inappropriate. I would be more sympathetic to the LDS Church in all of this, if there were any evidence of an intellectually robust response to the larger issues. Instead, we get the lazy approach, which is to act punitively against those who feel betrayed and strike out in their hurt.

Did Gordon contact Twede? Nope. The thought probably never crossed his mind. This is just one more small indicator of the larger problem.