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Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:51 pm
by _DarkHelmet
Some of my family members have been drinking the Ayn Rand kool-aid recently, which I find interesting since they are TBMs. Is it possible to compartmentalize one's Ayn Rand worship from one's Joseph Smith worship? Is anyone here an Ayn Rand follower and a TBM?
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:53 pm
by _Equality
DarkHelmet wrote:Some of my family members have been drinking the Ayn Rand kool-aid recently, which I find interesting since they are TBMs. Is it possible to compartmentalize one's Ayn Rand worship from one's Joseph Smith worship? Is anyone here an Ayn Rand follower and a TBM?
Ayn Rand's philosophy is completely incompatible with Christianity. Mormons who love Rand must either reject fundamental components of Objectivism or they must reject fundamental components of Mormonism.
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:16 pm
by _lostindc
To be an Ayn Rand supporter is akin to being a selfish asshole and in no way compatible with Mormonism. Yes I have resorted to ad hominem.
Why is it that 40-50% of the Mormons on my Facebook either spew Randtardisms and/or push the book? The people of Mormonism are so @ssbackwards it is ridiculous.
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:32 pm
by _sethpayne
Equality wrote:Ayn Rand's philosophy is completely incompatible with Christianity. Mormons who love Rand must either reject fundamental components of Objectivism or they must reject fundamental components of Mormonism.
I fully agree. Objectivism denies our altruistic instincts as human beings.
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:42 pm
by _huckelberry
DarkHelmet wrote:Some of my family members have been drinking the Ayn Rand kool-aid recently, which I find interesting since they are TBMs. Is it possible to compartmentalize one's Ayn Rand worship from one's Joseph Smith worship? Is anyone here an Ayn Rand follower and a TBM?
Of course it is possible for people to pick out ideas they like from somebody
who also has ideas they would not like. There may be a bit of translation in that process. I have not heard any Mormons actually reading or following Ayn Rand.( I have a pretty small number of Mormon contacts) I am curious as to what sort of ideas are said through this Mormon translation process.
I have an occasional hypothesis that Joseph Smith was fundamentally an atheist who would have strong affinity to Ayn Rand. I have been assured by Daniel Peterson that the idea is false and childish. That may be but the idea of considering how she translates into Mormon talk revives my illegitimate curiosity.
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:45 pm
by _zeezrom
Equality wrote:Ayn Rand's philosophy is completely incompatible with Christianity.
Either:
1. You are wrong
2. People don't understand Ayn
3. People interpret Christianity differently
Which do you choose?
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:53 pm
by _lostindc
I use to have questions and concerns regarding the philosophies of Rand but I learned to:
1. Shelve these issues until another time.
2. Listen to leadership and trust they know what is right (it is great, I do not have to read on the subject anymore! More time for scrap-booking, facebooking, and shoving my head full of sugar-loaded foods! Yum!).
3. I now realize my difficulties with Rand are not founded in anything related to Rand but rather my failings as a person (e.g. not being faithful enough to the Rand movement).
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:54 pm
by _huckelberry
zeezrom wrote:Equality wrote:Ayn Rand's philosophy is completely incompatible with Christianity.
Either:
1. You are wrong
2. People don't understand Ayn
3. People interpret Christianity differently
Which do you choose?
Completely incompatible, is an extreme version of,being in conflict with, so choice one is certainly possible.I have not read enough Rand to claim full understanding, I am probably not alone in that. Clearly you are correct in noting that people interpret Christianity differently.
There is also the consideration that people are normally inconsistent.
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:54 pm
by _Equality
Ayn Rand wrote:There is a great, basic contradiction in the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was one of the first great teachers to proclaim the basic principle of individualism -- the inviolate sanctity of man's soul, and the salvation of one's soul as one's first concern and highest goal; this means -- one's ego and the integrity of one's ego. But when it came to the next question, a code of ethics to observe for the salvation of one's soul -- (this means: what must one do in actual practice in order to save one's soul?) -- Jesus (or perhaps His interpreters) gave men a code of altruism, that is, a code which told them that in order to save one's soul, one must love or help or live for others. This means, the subordination of one's soul (or ego) to the wishes, desires or needs of others, which means the subordination of one's soul to the souls of others.
This is a contradiction that cannot be resolved. This is why men have never succeeded in applying Christianity in practice, while they have preached it in theory for two thousand years. The reason of their failure was not men's natural depravity or hypocrisy, which is the superficial (and vicious) explanation usually given. The reason is that a contradiction cannot be made to work. That is why the history of Christianity has been a continuous civil war -- both literally (between sects and nations), and spiritually (within each man's soul).
From a letter to Sylvia Austin dated July 9, 1946, in
Letters of Ayn Rand, p. 287
Re: Can a good Mormon be an Ayn Rand Objectivist?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:57 pm
by _Equality
Of course, individuals can and do pick out certain ideas from both Rand's works and the Bible. And this cherry picking of ideas from both might fit into an individual's own philosophy or belief system. But the fundamental idea of Objectivism is selfishness and the fundamental idea of Christianity is altruism, and these are incompatible.