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See this article on the extent to which visions of a deity can occur in persons suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy - even in one case where the person who had the vision was an atheist:

Despite the fact that he is a confirmed atheist, when he was 43, Rudi had a powerful religious vision which convinced him he had gone to hell.

"I was told that I had gone there because I had not been a devout Christian, a believer in God. I was very depressed at the thought that I was going to remain there forever."

That article is a piece of scientific journalism, but there is a lot more out there in the form of serious scientific literature. Interesting that some have said that Ellen G. White, founder of Seventh Day Adventism, may have been a sufferer. Relevant to the present board is the fact that one person on it has repeatedly referred to the effect on his own life of an unexpected and somewhat unwelcome vision of a deity. Has it ever been argued that this disorder might also be behind the First Vision? In that case, we could have a prophet amongst us who is as real as they ever get ...

Chap wrote: Has it ever been argued that this disorder might also be behind the First Vision? In that case, we could have a prophet amongst us who is as real as they ever get ...

I am of the opinion that the first vision is a complete fabrication. Now the visions that were induced by Joseph on the gang, that is another story. For those I vote for entheogens.

Willy Law wrote:

Chap wrote: Has it ever been argued that this disorder might also be behind the First Vision? In that case, we could have a prophet amongst us who is as real as they ever get ...

I am of the opinion that the first vision is a complete fabrication. Now the visions that were induced by Joseph on the gang, that is another story. For those I vote for entheogens.

Since there are so many versions of the First Vision story, and since it appeared as a matter of convenience as a part of a larger make-it-up-as- you-go-along narrative, I would agree that the first vision stories, all (seven?) of them, are complete fabrications, and not a very convincing ones once the facts about how and when they appeared are taken into account.

With regard to temporal lobe epilepsy, I know of no evidence that would indicate Joseph Smith suffered from this disorder. There is, however, a massive amount of evidence that he was a con man, liar, and philanderer. From what I have read, I would not put it past him, or Rigdon (or Cowdery, for that matter) to have given the spirit some assistance with ethnobotanical extracts.

Hello Chap

Chap wrote:See this article on the extent to which visions of a deity can occur in persons suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy - even in one case where the person who had the vision was an atheist:

Wait......... atheists have brains?




Jenn Kamp

Peace,
Ceeboo

Ceeboo wrote:Wait......... atheists have brains?

Peace,
Ceeboo

This may be the object of a research. (***)

There are things they don't have.
Prophets, seers, revelators. Priests, augurs, ministers, gurus.

I have to add: they don't have temples.

A temple (from the Latin word templum) is a structure reserved for religious or spiritual activities, such as prayer and sacrifice, or analogous rites. A templum constituted a sacred precinct as defined by a priest, or augur. It has the same root as the word "template," a plan in preparation of the building that was marked out on the ground by the augur. Templa also became associated with the dwelling places of a god or gods. Despite the specific set of meanings associated with the religion of the ancient Rome, the word has now become quite widely used to describe a house of worship for any number of religions and is even used for time periods prior to the Romans.

_________________
(***) Minority report:
I am, therefore I am atheist - if I may paraphrase Descartes.
I have recorded EEG waves.
This proves I have neurons of my brain.
This doesn't prove I have brain.

(EEG measures voltage fluctuations resulting from ionic current flows within the neurons of the brain.)