Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_sethpayne
_Emeritus
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:41 pm

Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _sethpayne »

In my view, the following statements are likely to have been said by the historical Jesus. They are consistent with other statements from the Q source though to be legitimate, as opposed to later additions. In any case, I find these two statements to be both profound, yet difficult.

First, from Matthew 26:52:

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword


The wisdom of this statement is readily apparent. Yet, there are times when it seems we are morally compelled to defend ourselves by "[taking] the sword." Personally, I believe this statement applies primarily to individuals and is not meant to dictate political positions -- Jesus was, after all, expecting the imminent coming of the Kingdom of God.

Second, from Mathew 6:

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? 28 And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat? ’ or ‘What will we drink? ’ or ‘What will we wear? ’ 32 For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

34 “So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today


I find such wisdom in the above. Having faith that tomorrow will take of itself is incredibly difficult. Plus, aren't we under an obligation to prepare for tomorrow? Perhaps what we can learn from this is that we cannot allow preparing for tomorrow to take away from the present moment.

Anyway, I would love to hear thoughts from my friends here at MDB.
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _huckelberry »

sethpayne wrote:
First, from Matthew 26:52:

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword


The wisdom of this statement is readily apparent. Yet, there are times when it seems we are morally compelled to defend ourselves by "[taking] the sword." Personally, I believe this statement applies primarily to individuals and is not meant to dictate political positions -- Jesus was, after all, expecting the imminent coming of the Kingdom of God.


I think both the sword word and the lilies of the field illustrate that Jesus spoke in ways outside of the process of setting up laws for people. I hear instead a call to rethink what principals we use to make decisions. I do not see the idea of imminent kingdom of God as clarifying this. It is disputed what the words "imminent Kingdom of God " mean here. I cannot imagine it making sense to think of it as meaning the end our human existence here with its conflicts uncertainties and wars. If our problems are about to end why all the teaching? Well perhaps our confrontation with the problem of sword and lilies of the field is a major aspect of just how the Kingdom actually is appearing now.
_kairos
_Emeritus
Posts: 1917
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _kairos »

That Q source is as elusive as the goldenplates and the missing scroll.
but be that as it may, we find luke relying on Q in Luke 22-36 where Jesus tells the disciples prior to going over to the mount of olives after the last supper "if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one... Look lord they replied we have 2 swords among us" further in Luke 22-48-49 they could see what was about to happen after judas kissed Jesus and asked him "should we fight, we brought the swords"... slashing off an ear of Malchus the high priest's slave ,followed by Jesus healing the man's ear.

in the luke context at the last supper Jesus is preparing the apostles for their missions after his return to heaven, indicating by parabolic logic that they will suffer so much persecution, they must be prepared to "fight their way out" if needed. he did not mean they should evangelize the world with swords and scabbards on their hips; the sword of the Holy Spirit was all they would need and use-medieval crusader types they were not to be.

i find it untenable from scripture that Jesus believed he himself would bring about the second coming "soon" after his ascension; however paul clearly believed it and taughtit, raising doubts, that if Jesus was to return "soon" , as to the LDS notion of an early apostacy. that is if Jesus returned before paul and john died or shortly therafter, there was no time for an apostacy and no reason for a "restoration". of course things did not turn that way so the Mormons can come along and say everything as been screwed up since the first centruy AD and so God finally made things right through Joseph Smith-NOT!


just sayin
_lulu
_Emeritus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _lulu »

sethpayne wrote:Second, from Mathew 6:

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? 28 And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat? ’ or ‘What will we drink? ’ or ‘What will we wear? ’ 32 For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

34 “So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today


Jesus at his Taoist best.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _Nightlion »

sethpayne wrote:Second, from Mathew 6:

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? 28 And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat? ’ or ‘What will we drink? ’ or ‘What will we wear? ’ 32 For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

34 “So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today

[/quote]

How many times have I mentioned this? Jesus is telling us exactly HOW to approach God acceptably and get your sacrifice to count with him. If you fail to make it THE most important of all thing with you so long as you strive for it.......it will be counted a vain thing..........a process...........an abomination. And you will not be visited of the God and will not be made to know and partake of his power. Worlds without end.

Oh, and the sacrifice you bring is your AGENCY. Subject it to the will of the Father.......like Jesus said about the kingdom.......where the will of the Father is done..............HINT, HINT. That is where you are striving to get to and without leaving behind your baggage of self interest, self will, self perfecting hypocrisy, seeking your own excellence even by imitating Christ for Pete's sake.......you have nothing God is interested in for a sacrifice.

That is the gospel. Like it or lump it. The Gentiles trample all over it in their zeal to come off the best of the best of the best above all nations and people of the whole earth. As per consigs thread.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _bcspace »

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword

The wisdom of this statement is readily apparent. Yet, there are times when it seems we are morally compelled to defend ourselves by "[taking] the sword." Personally, I believe this statement applies primarily to individuals and is not meant to dictate political positions -- Jesus was, after all, expecting the imminent coming of the Kingdom of God.


Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_sethpayne
_Emeritus
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:41 pm

Re: Two of Jesus' most profound, yet difficult sayings

Post by _sethpayne »

bcspace wrote:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34


So which one wins, BC?

The statement which falls in line with the majority of Jesus' teachings or an obscure reference?
Post Reply