"Dear Religion", from Ricky Gervais

[Guest]

"Dear Religion,

This week I safely dropped a man from space while you shot a child in the head for wanting to go to school.

Yours, Science"

(tweet from Ricky Gervais)
____________________________________________

With the point blank shooting of a 14 year old Pakistani female in the head for advocating school for girls, and the follow-on threat to kill her should she recover from her wounds, the Taliban seems to have finally crossed the line in the minds many (if not most) of those Muslims who had any sympathy left for them. Media in the Middle East, even Saudi Arabia, is condemning this act in no uncertain terms.

This kind of thinking is reflected in the "Miracle of Forgiveness" - type attitude that it is better for one's teenaged daughter to be brought home a dead virgin than to remain alive and sexually active (or even a victim of rape).

One would think that more educated Mormons would be able to see, and be willing to talk about, the parallels between the damage done by this kind of cruel anti-human thinking in Islam and that done by such thinking in Mormonism.

The longer I live here, the more the parallels between the attitudes in Islam and Mormonism, especially Mormonism in Utah, become evident.

[_Racer]

I often postulate that if UT was never accepted as a state governed by US law and the Constitution, that an iron fisted Taliban styled Mormon theocracy would be the eventuality for UT. The more I read about BY the more I think he would have moved in that direction had it not been for the watchful eye the Union had on him.

[_DrW]

I often postulate that if UT was never accepted as a state governed by US law and the Constitution, that an iron fisted Taliban styled Mormon theocracy would be the eventuality for UT. The more I read about BY the more I think he would have moved in that direction had it not been for the watchful eye the Union had on him.

The new biography of Brigham Young is a book I intend to read as soon as I get back to the US. (It is not available here, for obvious reasons.) In Brigham Young, I see many of the same traits and attitudes that are exhibited by the less successful, and oft deposed (and disposed), rulers in this region. In many ways BY put his own material wealth and well being before the welfare of the membership of the Church and even members of his own family.

As one who has a lot of relatives in SLC and in Utah County, I am always amazed, when I visit, at the amount of de facto regimentation and groupthink that pervades the media, as well as business and personal communications and interaction.

Sometimes I think folks who live in Utah don't realize how jarring this can be for outsiders to come and live there for any amount of time. Utah County (especially Provo, Springville, etc.) seems especially monolithic.

On a daily basis, the vast majority of these people are expected to act (and most do act) as if the LDS Church were the most important and significant institution on the face of the Earth. They allow the often misguided pronouncements of its leaders to permeate and influence their thought and speech and actions, literally as if these were coming from Elohim, just as the Moslems strive to live by the words of otherwise uneducated and naïve mullahs as if they were from Allah.

For now, I live in a 95% Islamic country and experience on a daily basis how eerily close to one another the two cultures (Islam and Mormonism) are in terms of groupthink, persecution complexes, intolerance for heterogeneity of any kind, and "us vs them" mentality. In fact, I would say that parts of Utah are less tolerant of any heterodoxy than are the Muslims here.

And the internet and availability of media and easy access to accurate information has not seemed to change things. In response, the Church leaders seem to simply tighten the screws with more, and stricter, correlation.

[_Drifting]

I'm not suggesting that the Mormon Leadership would go to the extent of gunning down members (MMM notwithstanding). However, I do believe that the Leadership would be much harsher with individual members if societal pressures didn't exist via publicity about their actions.

Take for instance the recent case of David Twede, it was only publicity that prevented a much harsher and more expedient treatment of that individual.


P.S. it's very hard to see what, if anything, Ricky got wrong.

[_3sheets2thewind]

I often postulate that if UT was never accepted as a state governed by US law and the Constitution, that an iron fisted Taliban styled Mormon theocracy would be the eventuality for UT. The more I read about BY the more I think he would have moved in that direction had it not been for the watchful eye the Union had on him.

I read on I4m, that during the early years of Utah beheading prostitutes or other Old Testament type law of Moses did infact occur.

[_Mary]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jYwrgHONSc

Worth a watch.

[_PrickKicker]

I read about a promiscuous young man who was castrated by the Elders, Back in Brighams day.

These days it's more psychological, like comparing your standing in the eyes of God, to a murderer!
Because of pleasuring yourself or engaging in sexual discovery prior to marriage, or even being the victim of rape.
You should fight a gun or knife wielding rapist to the death rather than living to tell the tale and suffer the psychological effects.

God and the Holy Ghost are amazing!
Inspiring prophets and apostles with things like blood atonement, enacted death penalties and and the law of vengeance.

Then removing them from the ceremonies and trying to cover them up!

[_Drifting]

“Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation when there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.”

- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Prophet, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 196

[_DrW]

I often postulate that if UT was never accepted as a state governed by US law and the Constitution, that an iron fisted Taliban styled Mormon theocracy would be the eventuality for UT. The more I read about BY the more I think he would have moved in that direction had it not been for the watchful eye the Union had on him.

I read on I4m, that during the early years of Utah beheading prostitutes or other Old Testament type law of Moses did infact occur.

Looked for the reference on I4m. Not easily found. URL / link, please.

Thanks

[_Sophocles]

I read on I4m, that during the early years of Utah beheading prostitutes or other Old Testament type law of Moses did infact occur.

Looked for the reference on I4m. Not easily found. URL / link, please.

Thanks

Could be referring to this page:
http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/mormon_sex.htm

3 Mar, 1849 - At council of Fifty meeting, Brigham Young speaks concerning thieves, murderers, and sexually licentious: " I want their cursed heads to be cut off that they may atone for their crimes." Next day, the council agrees that man has "forfeited his Head," and decides it would be best "to dispose of him privately." Instead, they allow him to live.

12 Sep, 1858 - Church historian's office notes discovery this morning of severed head of Provo woman who has been at U.S. military camp for a week. Six weeks earlier another woman's head is discovered. These are earliest verified examples of someone taking literally the repeated teachings of Mormon leaders that apostates and adulterers should have their heads "cut off" as "blood atonement" for their sins.