DiscussMormonism.com

Louis "Woody" Midgley has just published a "review" in the MI in which he appears to be practically giddy about the prospects of Western cultural imperialism in China:

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/Christ ... ary-china/

Early on, Midgley notes that he was "aroused" and experienced a "climax" after contact with Chinese graduate students:

It was only later when I encountered Chinese graduate students at Brigham Young University that my interest in their immense, diverse, and wonderful homeland was aroused. The climax of this experience was the reaction of some of those students (while we were reading together Alexis de Tocqueville’s Democracy in America) to the series of events that took place in and around Tiananmen Square (beginning on 15 April and ending on 4 June 1989).

Though people typically view the Tiananmen Square "events" as being indicative of a surge in interest in democracy in communist China, Midgley instead sees it as an opportunity to begin encouraging the spread of Christianity. (He says, repeatedly, how "amazed" and "stunned" he is about these developments.)

Later, Midgley rather bizarrely excerpts this passage from the book under review:

“Will popular Christianity,” Lian asks at the end of his book, “inspire a violent uprising?” His conclusion: “Given the overwhelming power of the centralized state in contemporary China, there is little likelihood in the near future that a fragmented, however spirited, Christian movement will foment popular revolt” (p. 246). As interesting as his speculation about what he calls “the long run” might be, what interest [sic] me the most about his book are his accounts of some truly amazing and quite unanticipated events that have taken place in the last four decades in China.

(typo ibid)

Why, I wondered, did Midgley opt, in this very short "review," to zero in on an apparent throw-away speculation about "violent revolt"? It seems telling somehow.

The best thing about the "review" is how short it is: Midgley quickly wraps up with some vaguely paternalistic language that one imagines Edward Said having a field-day over:

I have longed to understand the peoples and their ways in that ancient land. I am confident that other Latter-day Saints are also concerned about the future of the covenant people of God in China.

The biggest problem with Midgley's review is precisely this: he doesn't actually seem legitimately interesting in "the peoples"; he seems, instead, interested in how many people the LDS Church can count--he's rather like a greedy CEO, rubbing his palms together and salivating over the prospect of expanding into a fresh marketplace of over a billion new potential customers. He appears to view this as yet another part of the Mopologists' ongoing warfare, and it isn't an especially pretty sight.

Midgley is living in a fantasy world here. I have extensive experience with Chinese culture and traveling to China. It is true, there is a younger class who want more freedom of expression. It's possible a revolt could ensue over freedom of choice, but most likely China will eventually end up there through a slow peaceful evolution.

The Chinese people are like Green Bay Packers fans. Extremely loyal and proud of their country no matter how well its fairing. There is a sense of national pride there that we as Americans don't have. China is changing, but I don't see a mass of violent revolts unless something extreme happens like their economy getting squeezed to tight or a huge food shortage or something.

But let me make perfectly clear, if The Chinese people do revolt, it sure as hell won't be for Christianity or any other religion. Chinese citizens might desire more freedoms, but they desire organized religion about as much as they desire a hole in the head.

I'm sure many at the "MI" eagerly await to conscript the new blood of the east to their cause, perhaps there will be a new tiering structure for donations worked out? Perhaps these tiers will be based on the Book of Mormon coinage?

Well, after a 36 hour day at the Foxconn facility and paying 10 percent of that to City Creek, if you multiply 2 billion by 4 percent, by whatever percent are Internet Mormons, that's enough to take the MI to the next level.

But they'd better get a Eastern Text translation project going as a show of good faith.

And work on their commonality with Buddhism, to show that LDS has far more in common than conventional Christianity.

Is it just me or was the title Mormon Interpreter with the abbreviation of "MI" more than a happy coincidence? It's kind of like riding on the coattails of the established brand recognition of the "MI" abbreviation that is recognized for Mormon studies. It's almost like they are hoping someone will google "MI research" and it might purposely misdirect someone to Mormon Interpreter instead of the Maxwell Institute. Even worse, I wonder if using a similar name helps with donations when dealing with the unsuspecting. "Hi I am DCP and I am raising money for the MI."

Its kind of like opening a restaurant named Krispy Fried Chicken and then calling it KFC. It's kind of underhanded and cheap.

Racer wrote:Midgley is living in a fantasy world here. I have extensive experience with Chinese culture and traveling to China. It is true, there is a younger class who want more freedom of expression. It's possible a revolt could ensue over freedom of choice, but most likely China will eventually end up there through a slow peaceful evolution.

The Chinese people are like Green Bay Packers fans. Extremely loyal and proud of their country no matter how well its fairing. There is a sense of national pride there that we as Americans don't have. China is changing, but I don't see a mass of violent revolts unless something extreme happens like their economy getting squeezed to tight or a huge food shortage or something.

But let me make perfectly clear, if The Chinese people do revolt, it sure as hell won't be for Christianity or any other religion. Chinese citizens might desire more freedoms, but they desire organized religion about as much as they desire a hole in the head.

I have some first-hand experience with this as well and agree completely (good analogy with the Packers fanbase as well- they are loyal but always have had a reason to be). Most expat branches consist mostly of American Mormons overseas and fizzle out when they leave. Chinese people may be superstitious at times but are not much for organized religions that contradict the science/math/engineering that is revered in its stead.

China is not going to blow up with Christianity or Mormonism. Truth is Chinese people are very polite and might pray to accept Jesus or get baptized or whatever if someone takes an interest, but the prospect of it becoming an empassioned organized-religious stronghold is not going to happen. Religion is simply not high on the list of things to get concerned with.

Having many relatives native to the mainland and being raised in a mostly Chinese culture, it's taught to be very polite in carrying on a conversation with whatever the other person is interested in talking about, even religion, which I think many foreigners interpret as interest. Many foreigners interpret attending meetings, getting baptized as interest. Actually many will attend a meeting they're invited to, accept back visits from foreign missionaries, or be agreeable with getting baptized if friends are there and it's a pleasant place to be and thing to do. But expect revolutions in the name of religion, or commitments like tithing and you're dreaming. I've heard RM's that served in Asian countries consider that lack of commitment to religion or being soft as maybe being afraid to say what you really feel, or being 'fluffy' but you need to understand it's a culture that views being polite and agreeable as one of the most important qualities to have, and much more important than being 'right' or expressionistic.

Anyways, revolutions in China because of a Christian or Mormon outcry? Dream on.

If I have done the math right, the percentage of Chinese who are Protestant (using the most optimistic estimates) is about 3.5%. That means that there is a greater percentage of Chinese who are Protestant than there are Americans who are Mormon. No wonder Midgley is so enthralled with Christianity in China.

Like Racer and Harold Lee, I also have some experience in mainland China (and Taiwan). On one such trip, my wife and I were guests at a dinner in the Great Hall of the People at which the then Premier (Li Ping) spoke and took questions. Even though the audience included many Americans, you can bet he didn't talk about the growth of Christianity in China.

(For someone who ordered the crackdown in Tiananmen Square, Li Ping seemed like a remarkably understanding and personable individual.)

Material gain and national pride (in that order) are the main concerns of the Chinese I have worked with (in both Chinas). While many Chinese will gladly discuss politics, religion comes up very seldom, if ever, in conversation. I have never met a person in Taiwan or mainland China who seemed the least bit interested in Christianity.

As for the chances of Christianity making much of an impact in China, or of the LDS Church becoming more than a State tolerated fringe cult; they are slim to none. Do any Church Leaders seriously think that tithing from Chinese members might ever flow to SLC, as it does from members in the UK for example? If not, why the (pseudo)-enthusiasm?

in my opinion, MIdgley's little article in MI shows about as much insight into the meaning and impact of Christianity in China, and its implication for the LDS Church, as something written by a BYU freshman for an assigned book report.

Racer, Harold Lee and Dr. W. have pointed out how ludicrous it is to believe that any major social or political change is likely to be nucleated by the growth of Christianity in China - interesting as it may be to know something about the history and present state of the small minority of Chinese people who are members of one Christian church or another.

I think you will find that anybody with in-depth experience of modern China will agree with that assessment.

Those with an interest in what a really large native-born Christian movement in China looked like when it did threaten to overturn the established order may like to read about the Taiping rebellion in 1850-1864, which cost some 20 million lives and devastated areas which had been China's cultural heartland. Some contemporary Europeans did deny the title of 'Christians' to the Taipings, but that is probably not an option that Mormons can decently take, given the interesting parallels between Joseph Smith's life and work, and those of the founder of the Taipings, Hong Xiuquan.

DrW wrote:as something written by a BYU freshman for an assigned book report.

But that was a really bad book report. I would have handed it back to the freshman and sent him to the writing center, not having the heart to fail a freshman without giving him a 2nd chance.

Does Midgley deserve a 2nd chance on this assignment?

PS Chap, interesting on the rebellion, thanks.