Spalding Theory -- Mormonleaks.com

[Guest]

Seth Payne mentioned in another thread that he does not put much stock in the spaulding theory. I have recently been going through the episodes at mormonleaks.com (by the way, downloading the pdfs makes for a much quicker review of the episodes). I find the proposed theory there to be quite persuasive. I am interested in what the best arguments are against Manuscript Found's involvement as well as arguments against the other possibilities suggested at Mormonleaks. The site goes through incredible detail in its effort to persuade and it seems to really be on to something.

[_Fence Sitter]

You may find this incredibly long thread informative.

Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al

[_Harold Lee]

Have you guys read the Book of Mormon from a non-religious standpoint. It's extremely overrated and dull, and the storyline in there is just recycled and concepts from the Bible. Wandering in a desert, building a ship to get here, starting civilization, a rebellious group of wicked people becoming savage Indians and describing them, fighting back and forth, recycled concepts from the New Testament, things he was hearing in church and seeing in different denominations, an army getting drunk so they escape, and on and on.

I find Ralph Waldo Emerson, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Emily Bronte, etc from the same century to be much better reads. The reason there are no real in-depth literary analyses of the Book of Mormon from non-mormon scholars is because it is not a good piece of literature, it doesn't claim to be itself and I'm not sure why Mormons say it's so amazing how could a kid under the age of 25 have written it (the book wasn't published until he was almost 25, I don't know why they say at the pulpit a 14 year old boy couldn't have wrote it)?

He was a voracious reader, told many stories about Indians in his teenage years (including a Spanish ghost with his throat slit informing him of buried treasure) so he was a very creative and imaginative youth, and he had an English schoolteacher's 'help', we really have no clue what happened outside of that.

The idea that he couldn't have come up with the storyline himself with the resources he had is ridiculous, what he needed help with was grammar and structure and I don't doubt at all that where that help came from.

I don't think he stole and libelized another manuscript as scandalous as that might sound since the pretty low quality of the Book of Mormon's storyline doesn't necessitate that kind of drastic action, he may have just asked around and heard about it or talked to him directly about it as an interested youth.

[_Racer]

I'm not sure why Mormons say it's so amazing how could a kid under the age of 25 have written it (the book wasn't published until he was almost 25, I don't know why they say at the pulpit a 14 year old boy couldn't have wrote it)?

Great point Harold. I always love how Mormons throw out the challenge to write a book of scripture like the Book of Mormon in 60 days because that's how long it took Joseph Smith to translate the Book of Mormon; 60 days. They never challenge Joseph Smith's claim. They just take it as true when he and his so-called scribes say 60 days. For all I know it could have taken him 3 years to put the book together and then he comes out and falsely claims 60 days.

This is a prime example of the wacky "Out the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses..." litmus test the church likes to cart out to prove if something is true or not. I saw a unicorn, and if I have 2 of my friends back me up, it must be true. Right? What a joke.

[_Tobin]

I like it when the critics put forward the Spaulding Theory. It is really a nutty theory with not one shred of evidence that such a manuscript ever existed - no drafts, no copies, nothing you can cite. It's simply bonkers.

[_Mercury]

I'm not sure why Mormons say it's so amazing how could a kid under the age of 25 have written it (the book wasn't published until he was almost 25, I don't know why they say at the pulpit a 14 year old boy couldn't have wrote it)?

Great point Harold. I always love how Mormons throw out the challenge to write a book of scripture like the Book of Mormon in 60 days because that's how long it took Joseph Smith to translate the Book of Mormon; 60 days. They never challenge Joseph Smith's claim. They just take it as true when he and his so-called scribes say 60 days. For all I know it could have taken him 3 years to put the book together and then he comes out and falsely claims 60 days.

This is a prime example of the wacky "Out the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses..." litmus test the church likes to cart out to prove if something is true or not. I saw a unicorn, and if I have 2 of my friends back me up, it must be true. Right? What a joke.

I think its doable if you are rattling off bullshyte while your head is in a hat while someone writes it all down. The Book of Mormon is incoherent, poorly written and full of plot holes. If course it was constructed in 60 days.

[_sock puppet]

The screenplay for Rocky (1976) must have come from god too, goes this Mormon logic.

After all, Sylvester Stallone (albeit attended some college) wrote the screenplay for the Academy Award-winning movie in 3 days by one account (The Rocky Story by Stallone) or 20 straight hours (Stallone to Tony Robbins), after having witnessed the the Muhammad Ali–Chuck Wepner fight.

I think that the fact Stallone penned that successful of a screenplay in either 20 hours or 3 days is proof of divine intervention.

I therefore testify that I know that Rocky is true.

[_Tobin]

The screenplay for Rocky (1976) must have come from god too, goes this Mormon logic.

After all, Sylvester Stallone (albeit attended some college) wrote the screenplay for the Academy Award-winning movie in 3 days by one account (The Rocky Story by Stallone) or 20 straight hours (Stallone to Tony Robbins), after having witnessed the the Muhammad Ali–Chuck Wepner fight.

I think that the fact Stallone penned that successful of a screenplay in either 20 hours or 3 days is proof of divine intervention.

I therefore testify that I know that Rocky is true.

That isn't the basis for why Mormons believe in the Book of Mormon as scripture and you know it. They should do so because God tells them it is true.

[_Harold Lee]

I doubt it took 3 years to write the Book of Mormon. Maybe the writing but the stories it has he'd been telling and thinking up all his life.

For example: http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-conte ... N04_37.pdf this looks at how the angel moroni evolved slowly after being told through his childhood and teenage years.

The whole concept of a spooky ghost visiting him to tell him of buried gold treasure was from BEFORE he turned 17 (which you know what he alleged at that age).

The Book of Mormon has such little original and storyline content to it I don't think he needed much help coming up with the ideas. It was the English he needed help with.

[_Harold Lee]

God told me Rocky was true. Could someone like Stallone have written it himself?

Look at him:



Pray, then watch it. If you feel good after watching it. Well that's your answer. That's the only answer you'll get.