DiscussMormonism.com

I think that something curious has been happening. Obviously, the Mopologists are now in an awkward spot vis-a-vis the Maxwell Institute. Many of the articles they've come to rely on in their rebuttals to critics are still housed at the MI (the *real* MI, and not the MI). And yet, the "Kingpin" of Mopologetics--Dan Peterson--has made it very clear that he not only despises the Maxwell Institute and its leadership, but he's going to actively try to dissuade donors from giving to the MI. Naturally, one has to wonder how tangential organizations like FAIR would respond to this. Interestingly, I noticed something very interesting:

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/

Do you notice anything different? I did. I remember that, for the longest time, MST contained a "Links" sidebar, and that this included a link to.... The Neal A. Maxwell Institute. See here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200911242131 ... stify.org/

What this means is that the administrators at MST have deliberately gone in and made an effort to cover up the site's past relationship with not only the MI, but with old-school Mopologetics in general. Now there is no mention whatsoever of FAIR, even--despite the fact that FAIR volunteers were instrumental in launching the project.

Compare the links with the site for Mormon Voices (a.k.a., "The Mormon Defense League"):

http://mormonvoices.org/

Scroll down to the bottom, and you see a link to the Neal A. Maxwell Institute. So, I have to ask: does this represent a conflict of interest? Or is the FAIR leadership attempting a coup here? Are they spitting into the "Kingpin"'s eye? It's hard not to suspect that the people at FAIR are bitter about the launch of Mormon Interpreter. For a moment, before all the dust had cleared, it seemed like FAIR was poised to assume the top position on the totem pole of Mopologetics, but thanks to the founding of the MI, they once again find themselves playing second fiddle.

The actual FAIR site, for what it's worth, still lists the Maxwell Institute among its links, and even goes further to identify it as an "affiliate":

http://www.fairlds.org/links

You really have to view this, in the end, as a ringing endorsement of M. Gerald Bradford and the important work that's being done at this BYU research organization. You kind of have to admire the cunning and diplomacy skills of Scott Gordon, Allen Wyatt, and the rest of the canny FAIR Internet crew--it's quite wily of them to go on supporting Bradford and the MI right under DCP's nose like this.

The link to NAMIRS is still on Mormon Scholars Testify.

See here:
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/about

Links
Association for Mormon Letters
Association of Mormon Counselors and Psychotherapists
Brigham Young University
BYU-Hawaii
BYU-Idaho
European Mormon Studies Association
Expressions of Faith: Testimonies of Latter-day Saint Scholars
FAIR
FAIR Bookstore
FAIR Wiki
LDS Business College
Mormon History Association
Mormon Scholars in the Humanities
Mormon Social Science Association
Mormon Women (1)
Mormon Women (2)
Nauvoo University
Neal A. Maxwell Institute
Religious Studies Center
Society for Mormon Philosophy and Theology
Southern Virginia University
Square Two
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
The Mormon Women Project

This website is the work of Daniel C. Peterson, Scott Gordon, and Tanya Spackman. It was inspired by a request made by Elder M. Russell Ballard, and reiterated by other authors in the October 2009 Ensign, that we use the internet as a way of sharing our testimonies of the gospel.

For some additional information, see:
LDS Church News
Mormon Times
Religion Press Release Services
Patheos

You can submit your own testimony or contact us through mormonscholarstestify@fairlds.org

For more information about Mormonism and/or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, please contact us at mormonscholarstestify@fairlds.org or contact the Church itself via Mormon.org

Shoddy research Scratch, shoddy research...

My sense is that Mormon Interpreter has a long way to go before it becomes any kind of competition for the FAIR juggernaut. By almost any measure, it is an amateurish affair. Indeed, I would say that the Interpreter is in danger of being considered stillborn by the few members of the LDS community who even know of its existence. Think about it. Very few members knew about FARMS, and yet FARMS published all of these classic Mopologetic works by Nibley et al. FAIR has a big online presence with the wiki, the website, etc., but also hard publications. The Interpreter is a measly website with a few articles that most Mormons will never read. Mormons can't point to that unopened Interpreter volume on the bookshelf and say to their doubting friend, "See! That guy has a PeeeHDeee, and he thinks Martin Harris was sane!"

Dr. Peterson needs to give his baby a lot more attention than he currently is. Maybe he should lay off of arguments on Facebook and get back to work.

Aha! Thank you, Drifting. Let me ask you this, though: for how long has the link been buried in the "About" section? I seem to recall, and the Wayback link appears to indicate, that the link used to be on the front page.

Doctor Scratch wrote:Aha! Thank you, Drifting. Let me ask you this, though: for how long has the link been buried in the "About" section? I seem to recall, and the Wayback link appears to indicate, that the link used to be on the front page.

I have no idea, but it's not exactly 'buried' just because it's no longer on the front page. I think you are overegging the pudding on this one, which isn't like you.

What's going on?

Drifting wrote:I have no idea, but it's not exactly 'buried' just because it's no longer on the front page. I think you are overegging the pudding on this one, which isn't like you.

What's going on?

LOL!!!

Very funny, Drifting.

Either you are having us on, or you are unaware of whom we are dealing with here. I hope it is the former, or there may be some remedial Mopologetic Studies in your future. We don't give out those Cassius sheepskins to just anyone.

My take on this is that the Good Doctor has brought something significant to our attention. The question is one of interpretation. I think it is clear that Mormon Scholars Testify is evolving, and that this evolution is reflected in even something as simple as the presentation of its "Links" section. There are two things to note. First, the links have expanded from ones that are primarily apologetic to those that are both apologetic and scholarly. What this tells me is that the Doctor was correct in surmising that MST was, in the first instance, an apologetic effort, and that, through his efforts, pressure was brought to bear on its creators to gin up the academic aspect.

But is this the only reason why? Could it be that Dr. Peterson is being marginalized in the MST effort, resulting in, among other things, the apologetic links being hidden in a much larger list of links on another page? Or, is it the case, as the Doctor contends, that Dr. Peterson is very much still at the helm here, and that he is working his revenge on NAMIRS by burying them in a deluge of links? I wouldn't be hasty to reach one conclusion or the other.

You see, Drifting, you and I may not think much of demoting a link by moving it to a less accessible page, and burying it in a longer list, but we are not classic-FARMS apologists. If we have learned anything about this crew of miscreants and ne'er-do-wells over the course of our years of study, it is that they are extremely petty and vindictive. Frankly, I am surprised that there is someone left out there who has not yet apprehended that fact, what with the endless booming fulminations about the "evil" and "conniving" Gerald Bradford and his usurpation of the Maxwell Institute. So, yeah, I don't know that the link was moved out of some sad little vendetta, but would I utterly exclude the possibility?

No way. To do so would be a dereliction of one's duty to consider all credible alternatives.

Kishkumen wrote:What this tells me is that the Doctor was correct in surmising that MST was, in the first instance, an apologetic effort, and that, through his efforts, pressure was brought to bear on its creators to EGG up the academic aspect.

fixed

RockSlider wrote:

Kishkumen wrote:What this tells me is that the Doctor was correct in surmising that MST was, in the first instance, an apologetic effort, and that, through his efforts, pressure was brought to bear on its creators to EGG up the academic aspect.

fixed

Kishkumen wrote:You see, Drifting, you and I may not think much of demoting a link by moving it to a less accessible page, and burying it in a longer list, but we are not classic-FARMS apologists.

I am no Mopologist lover, but it's hardly 'less accessible'. You go to the Home page of MST, click on 'about' and there it is. It takes less clicks to find the link to NAMIRS on MST than it does to read a thread on here. Are you suggesting threads on here are 'less accessible' because it takes more than two clicks to get to them?

Drifting wrote:I am no Mopologist lover, but it's hardly 'less accessible'. You go to the Home page of MST, click on 'about' and there it is. It takes less clicks to find the link to NAMIRS on MST than it does to read a thread on here. Are you suggesting threads on here are 'less accessible' because it takes more than two clicks to get to them?

You are not addressing any of the observations I brought to your attention.

Consider this. If I said I was going to put your name on a plaque in honor of your great contributions to Cassius University, and the plaque looked like this:

HONORIS CAUSA DRIFTING

versus this:

HONORIS CAUSA fredralphjoefrankfleetingdriftingjohnsimpsonalbutaneopoldlectralistempusque

You tell me which inscription does you more honor and serves as real recognition of your unique importance to our university.

Damning with faint praise is a concept with which you are familiar, no?