Speaking up in Gospel Doctrine class yesterday

[_consiglieri]

Yesterday in Sunday School, I decided to speak up for a change when the discussion came round to 2 Nephi 26:9-10, which basically says that the greater things taught by Jesus were not written down, but only enough to try the faith of the reader, “and if it so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.”

Two weeks ago I sat silent while it was taught that nothing beyond faith, repentance, baptism and the Holy Ghost should be taught or sought after. I decided to weigh in at this point.

I was sitting in the third pew from the front directly in front of the teacher, so when I raised my hand, she couldn’t very well miss me. When called upon, I said that there seems to be a disconnect between the Mormonism of Joseph Smith and the Mormonism of today; that in the Book of Mormon the mysteries of God are something that we are encouraged to seek out and discover; that in fact this passage goes on to say that the “greater things” are withheld “unto their condemnation.” But nowadays we are told the mysteries of God are things that should be left alone and not delved into.

The teacher took my comments in good stride, and left it to others in the class to voice alternate opinions.

The teacher came back to a quote from Spencer W. Kimball regarding the sealed portion of the gold plates to the effect that when he asks how many would like to read their contents, almost all hands go up; but when he asks how many are obeying the commandments we have, almost no hands go up. President Kimball concluded with the observation that we won’t get anything more until we are obeying what we have.

Feeling that if I’m in for a penny, I’m in for a pound, I raised my hand again and said that what President Kimball says here tends toward the newer strain of Mormonism in not seeking out the mysteries; that he accomplishes this by setting a standard of perfection on the part of the saints before anything new will come; but that the standard of perfection is not something any individual can attain, much less the entire body of saints.

The teacher agreed that perfection would not be possible to attain.

I followed it up by asking the teacher whether the saints in Joseph Smith’s day were perfect. She immediately said no. I said that in spite of their imperfections, they nevertheless received an overflowing surge of revelation from Joseph Smith in the form of sections in the D&C, the JST, and even new books of scripture like the Book of Abraham.

Somebody behind me was then called on who said that if we were not worthy to know what is in the sealed portion, that knowledge would condemn us. My thought was that the perfection I had just pushed out the front door had crawled in through the back window.

I observed that according to this passage in the Book of Mormon, what is required to understand the “greater things” is not works or perfection, but simply “belief” in what is written.

All told, I felt much better about speaking up in class.

My thanks to Why Me.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_just me]

My thanks to Why Me.

He will be proud, indeed!

[_Philo Sofee]

It is fascinating to me that people actually swallow the "I'm not worthy to receive more" line. NO ONE is *EVER* fully worthy, but they always have received in the past. This issue of worthiness is just SILLY. OF COURSE God's children are worthy. What a canard of an argument.

[_RockSlider]

I call it the "Burp, Fart, Sneeze" theorem.

As kids, we had heard that if one were to simultaneously burp, fart and sneeze simultaneously that it would overload your system and you would die.

The good news was that there is a build in safeguard where it is physically impossible to actually do it.

Take the first covenant known as "the law of the gospel". I remember thinking that if I was making a covenant to obey this law, it might be well to know exactly what that was. I started to make a list, and though incomplete was enough to realize that the simultaneous adherence to the list was indeed humanly impossible.

Very discouraging, not being able to get past first base, as it were.

Burp, fart .... come on sneeze!

[_Yoda]

I am glad you spoke up, too, Consig. It sounds like you were able to get some good discussion going, which is what Sunday School should be about! Bravo!

Did the teacher ever sum things up, or was the worthiness issue meant to be the answer to the question regarding seeking God's mysteries?

[_LDSToronto]

Ah, 'Perfection' chess. Or 'Salvation' Backgammon. I've played that many times in Sunday School. Well done.

H.

[_why me]

My thanks to Why Me.

He will be proud, indeed!

You should have done this also.

[_why me]

All told, I felt much better about speaking up in class.

My thanks to Why Me.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

No problem...you are my brother. I am sure that your wife was happy too. She didn't have to listen to any moaning afterwards. You did a good job. Continue with your questioning. You will keep the class and teacher on their toes.

It must have been wonderful to be in the church at joseph's time. I am sure that many members were asking him questions about the Book of Mormon and he had to answer those questions. Also about his experiences. He must have been convincing.

[_just me]

He will be proud, indeed!

You should have done this also.

I did until I didn't believe anymore. But, that is old news and not the topic of this particular thread.

[_why me]

I did until I didn't believe anymore. But, that is old news and not the topic of this particular thread.

I remember that I gave you the same advice that I gave consig. But it is not the topic of this thread. And yet, it helps to raise one's hand and ask questions. Silence never helps anyone. I am glad that consig will be raising his hand now.