Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Church.

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_TrashcanMan79
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _TrashcanMan79 »

Equality wrote:The idea that the leaders of the church have not been agitating on this issue for years is just ludicrous. The idea that the members just sort of latched on to a few stray comments from their top leaders is just pure fantasy.

All the more so when considering the wording of those stray comments.
The First Presidency wrote:Dear Brethren and Sisters:

Preserving Traditional Marriage

In March 2000 California voters overwhelmingly approved a state law providing that “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.” The California Supreme Court recently reversed this vote of the people. On November 4, 2 008, Californians will vote on a proposed amendment to the California state constitution that will now restore the March 2000 definition of marriage approved by the voters.

The Church’s teachings and position on this moral issue are unequivocal. Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, and the formation of families is central to the Creator’s plan for His children. Children are entitled to be born within this bond of marriage.

A broad-based coalition of churches and other organizations placed the proposed amendment on the ballot. The Church will participate with this coalition in seeking its passage. Local Church leaders will provide information about how you may become involved in this important cause.

We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman. Our best efforts are required to preserve the sacred institution of marriage.

Sincerely yours,
(Signed)
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency

All the members ever did is exactly what they were told -- by the Church. Wickman's so full of crap.
_Sammy Jankins
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _Sammy Jankins »

TrashcanMan79 wrote:Hey Lamanite, if you're reading along and if you feel up to it, I, for one, would love to hear your take on this (unlike your home board).


+1
I'd be interested to see the original OP he posted.
_lance peters
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _lance peters »

I just posted this under one of my many alias accounts on RfM:

Mormon High Priest Threatened with Excommunication in Marriage Row

Article Date: 9/23/2008

Article Title : "Man faces possible excommunication from LDS Church for supporting same sex marriage"

Excerpt: "HASTINGS, Neb. (ABC 4 News) - Andrew Callahan is a member of the LDS Church but he thinks not for much longer. Callahan has been speaking out against a gay marriage ban on the California ballot and Callahan now faces excommunication."

Link to Article #1: http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/M ... uK8pA.cspx

Link to Article #2:

Also, before this thread dies, I'd very much like to hear from some living, breathing, happy-dappy Mormons on this issue. Earlier today, bcspace pulled out the old "Mormon persecution complex," but his presence was short-lived. Are there any other faithful Mormon folks who wish to share their own personal insight with regards to Bro. Wickman's remarks? Ldsfaqs?, Droopy?, Robert F. Smith?, or maybe even one of DCP's 40+ rogue accounts that he secretly maintains here?
"Oh hai! After a good doxing, I'll know you in real life."

-Lance Peters
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

lance peters wrote:"I am almost speechless. Do not use this board to call anyone's church leaders liars!"


Yes, it's evil to say that someone who tells lies is a liar. :rolleyes:
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Watched the video and didn't see any "lies" other than from the people in this thread.

Yes, the Church was the "catalyst", just as he said (not a lie for you mentally impaired).
Yes, the members themselves then did the job, not the "Church" itself officially speaking (again for you mentally impaired, not a lie).

I know what lying looks like, and it's what you guys do every day, what liberals do, what Obama does, what Fanatical Islam does, what North Korea does, what criminals and other morally lacking do, and on and on. I spent years preparing to go into Law Enforcement, before changing directions, I'm an expert on wickedness and liars. Elder Wickman is not one of such.

Proof is in the pudding. The fact that liberals (which most of you are) blame "guns" as the problem with death, rather than people, shows the "depth" of lack of intellect you people embrace. Sure, as many of you were Mormons, most of you may be a bit more conservative and not believe that particular lie of liberalism, but you certainly fall for others, such as this one against Elder Wickman.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_lance peters
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Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:32 am

Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _lance peters »

ldsfaqs wrote:Watched the video and didn't see any "lies" other than from the people in this thread.

Yes, the Church was the "catalyst", just as he said (not a lie for you mentally impaired).
Yes, the members themselves then did the job, not the "Church" itself officially speaking (again for you mentally impaired, not a lie).

I know what lying looks like, and it's what you guys do every day, what liberals do, what Obama does, what Fanatical Islam does, what North Korea does, what criminals and other morally lacking do, and on and on. I spent years preparing to go into Law Enforcement, before changing directions, I'm an expert on wickedness and liars. Elder Wickman is not one of such.

Proof is in the pudding. The fact that liberals (which most of you are) blame "guns" as the problem with death, rather than people, shows the "depth" of lack of intellect you people embrace. Sure, as many of you were Mormons, most of you may be a bit more conservative and not believe that particular lie of liberalism, but you certainly fall for others, such as this one against Elder Wickman.


LOLWUT? I'm convinced that even if T. Monson came out tomorrow with a directive that read "Mormonism is a fraud, the Book of Mormon was plagerized, Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet, and I'm sorry" that you'd sit there for a few minutes, then after performing some mental gymnastics, you'd say "I get it, OBVIOUSLY T. Monson was using a sarcastic tone in this letter (is it possible to demonstrate sarcasm in a written letter?), I mean it's so obvious, he's basically saying that those members who don't believe this are liberals, support Islam, hate democracy, and deserve to die."
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Oh hai! After a good doxing, I'll know you in real life."

-Lance Peters
_cwald
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _cwald »

ldsfaqs wrote:Watched the video and didn't see any "lies" other than from the people in this thread.

Yes, the Church was the "catalyst", just as he said (not a lie for you mentally impaired).
Yes, the members themselves then did the job, not the "Church" itself officially speaking (again for you mentally impaired, not a lie).

I know what lying looks like, and it's what you guys do every day, what liberals do, what Obama does, what Fanatical Islam does, what North Korea does, what criminals and other morally lacking do, and on and on. I spent years preparing to go into Law Enforcement, before changing directions, I'm an expert on wickedness and liars. Elder Wickman is not one of such.

Proof is in the pudding. The fact that liberals (which most of you are) blame "guns" as the problem with death, rather than people, shows the "depth" of lack of intellect you people embrace. Sure, as many of you were Mormons, most of you may be a bit more conservative and not believe that particular lie of liberalism, but you certainly fall for others, such as this one against Elder Wickman.


WTF?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
_sock puppet
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _sock puppet »

ldsfaqs wrote:The fact that liberals (which most of you are) blame "guns" as the problem with death, rather than people, shows the "depth" of lack of intellect you people embrace.

You're right, ldsfaqs. It is because elohim has defective sperm and keeps fathering a certain percentage of human children that are inclined to hurt and kill other humans. That's the problem. Now, what can we, the collective, do to correct for elohim's misfires? Perhaps we could do what we can to keep weapons out of the hands of elohim's misfit children so as to protect elohim's other children. Oh, you might be right again if it dawned on you then that problem is not all people--just those from elohim's decaying sperm. Peel that back one more layer--that's right--the problem is elohim. But together, we can fix that. So, elohim (and elohim lovers like you) ought to be in favor of gun control, or more correctly, a fix-it kit for elohim.
_moksha
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _moksha »

How many ballot initiatives have you critics of the Church been successful at influencing, eh? At least we Mormons know how to get things done, from covert political operations to building magnificent Temples.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Tim the Enchanter
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Re: Elder Wickman on Prop 8: It was the members, NOT the Chu

Post by _Tim the Enchanter »

moksha wrote:How many ballot initiatives have you critics of the Church been successful at influencing, eh? At least we Mormons know how to get things done, from covert political operations to building magnificent Temples.


Is this an admission that Wickman is lying?
There are some who call me...Tim.
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