DiscussMormonism.com

People have all kinds of crazy ideas (beliefs). They use these ideas to place bets with the universe. Some ideas work well in certain contexts but not in others. Some people use certain ideas better than others to perform certain tasks (like relate meaningfully to friends and family).

I don't care whether you decide to speak Spanish or English or some other language in your home. You can be logical and communicate well in any of these languages. You can also be transparently illogical. In neither case will your language be a clear model for objective truth. Language as such is simply not built to be a clear mirror onto reality, even when it is perfectly logical (as much religious language is, historically: it makes perfectly good sense, if you accept the premise that the words used have certain meanings; not all religious people historically believe that the word "god" points to an old man living somewhere in the sky clutching thunderbolts).

It doesn't matter what language you speak, what way of life you pursue, what religion (or irreligion) you practice. You will make bets with the universe. Some will pay off, and some won't. As long as you don't force others to bet the way you do, you are a good person and should be allowed to play Nature's market until you blow up (as we all do at some point).

Belief or non-belief in some particular idea doesn't matter. It is what you do with those (dumb) beliefs (that we all have, atheists too) that makes or breaks your character.

Hermes wrote:It doesn't matter what language you speak, what way of life you pursue, what religion (or irreligion) you practice. You will make bets with the universe. Some will pay off, and some won't. As long as you don't force others to bet the way you do, you are a good person and should be allowed to play Nature's market until you blow up (as we all do at some point).

Belief or non-belief in some particular idea doesn't matter. It is what you do with those (dumb) beliefs (that we all have, atheists too) that makes or breaks your character.

I like the cut of your jib.

Craig Paxton wrote:....I discovered that there was no magic pill nor a cure for the cognitive dissonance other than walking away, establishing boundaries and living an authentic life.

...

Way before there was such a thing a cognitive dissonance I discovered authentic Mormonism. And for it I have had hell to pay at the hand of envious Mormons who would just as soon I drop dead yesterday. You can't see that the arrogance which sustains LDS in absolute hypocrisy is the same arrogance subject to your cognitive dissonance? REALLY? lol Man what a world.

The only thing that matters is if Joseph Smith facilitated a means to come unto Christ which is more good. He did. So why wont anyone familiar with it give it a try and solve really heart wrenching problems? Because or human pride. It has to go before you can work the works of God.....ya know....just sayin'.

Nightlion wrote:The only thing that matters is if Joseph Smith facilitated a means to come unto Christ which is more good. He did.

Nightlion,

What facility did JSJr provide for one to come unto Christ that did not exist before JSJr?

sock puppet wrote:

Nightlion wrote:The only thing that matters is if Joseph Smith facilitated a means to come unto Christ which is more good. He did.

Nightlion,

What facility did JSJr provide for one to come unto Christ that did not exist before JSJr?

Authentic Mormonism/Chritianity. He actually had faith enough to open the heavens and get himself born of God not after the fashion of the world but the way that actually hooks up and produces the works of God.

You got to admit that everyone before him for hundreds yeah thousands of years was just guessing and hoaxing and making up lots of bogus gospel that NEVER opened up a living relationship with God that began the flood of knowledge once again.

Its too often said that everything about Joseph is bad and yet he is the ONLY man in two thousand years to see the gospel right and lo and behold, what he did is exactly what all ancient saints did and NOT the arbitrary BS of Catholic and Protestant thought.

What he failed to do was replicate his authentic experience in the lives of those whom he collected around him. Oliver Cowdery was commanded to become just as authentic as Joseph was and he feared and the time was past and truth needed to adjust to a Gentile reality of little faith.

What I am seeing in Joseph Smith will escape the comprehension of the uninitiated. I guess you just got to be there to see there. But there is where the doing is.

Nightlion wrote:Authentic Mormonism/Chritianity. He actually had faith enough to open the heavens and get himself born of God not after the fashion of the world but the way that actually hooks up and produces the works of God.

You got to admit that everyone before him for hundreds yeah thousands of years was just guessing and hoaxing and making up lots of bogus gospel that NEVER opened up a living relationship with God that began the flood of knowledge once again.

Its too often said that everything about Joseph is bad and yet he is the ONLY man in two thousand years to see the gospel right and lo and behold, what he did is exactly what all ancient saints did and NOT the arbitrary BS of Catholic and Protestant thought.

What he failed to do was replicate his authentic experience in the lives of those whom he collected around him. Oliver Cowdery was commanded to become just as authentic as Joseph was and he feared and the time was past and truth needed to adjust to a Gentile reality of little faith.

What I am seeing in Joseph Smith will escape the comprehension of the uninitiated. I guess you just got to be there to see there. But there is where the doing is.

Many - including myself - would disagree with you on this, Nightlion. I see no objective evidence the Joseph Smith did anything you ascribe to him, and more than a little evidence that he was a charlatan and a charismatic con man. Did he truly open the heavens, or was he just really good at convincing people that he had done so? He also seemed awfully good at convincing local farmers that he could see buried treasure on their land, as well as the evil spirits that somehow managed to always carry it away *right* when the digging crew was about to find it.

TomHagen wrote:Many - including myself - would disagree with you on this, Nightlion. I see no objective evidence the Joseph Smith did anything you ascribe to him, and more than a little evidence that he was a charlatan and a charismatic con man. Did he truly open the heavens, or was he just really good at convincing people that he had done so? He also seemed awfully good at convincing local farmers that he could see buried treasure on their land, as well as the evil spirits that somehow managed to always carry it away *right* when the digging crew was about to find it.

Funny how youse guys will believe every little thing contrary to faith and ignore the abundance of evidence for faith. Like for instance. How is it mankind discovered natural gas just when they needed it to heat so many hundreds of million homes? Hmm?

I could cite thousands of reasons to believe in God and see his handiwork. There are more reasons to believe Joseph Smith was a prophet than not too. The fact that youse guys squint with the eyes refusing to see anything but evil on him tells us what sort you are of.

You have heard that this world IS about to be destroyed miserably.....right? How so? Because we have so many wonder inventions? Because we have so many wonderful sports? Because we have so many beautiful women? Because we are so fair minded as to allow everyone their rights?

Only because we deny God.........oh and of course with that we certainly disdain all prophets. Once you made up your mind contrary to all faith it is no biggie to skew all history to suit yourself. There was so much shenanigans going on while Joseph Smith was alive he would not care to keep up with it all. NOW REALLY SERIOUS SCHOLARS read every scrap to give us the real story.......sure.

No con man would be so careless as to give a fig if people thought it was Nephi or Moroni who appeared to him. That is not what a genius con man would be careless about. Thinkers today are not using their own genius to help a brother out of the pits of history but rather want to undermine it all the more. Did I mention that God WANTS to destroy such a people? Yeah. I think so. Keep on keeping on while there's still time to change the road yer on.

Nightlion wrote:How is it mankind discovered natural gas just when they needed it to heat so many hundreds of million homes? Hmm?

Necessity is the mother of invention. You can quote me on it.

Nightlion wrote:No con man would be so careless as to give a fig if people thought it was Nephi or Moroni who appeared to him.

Help me out here, Brother Nightlion. A conman would not give a fig if people thought it was Nephi or Moroni who appeared to him, so he wouldn't bother to correct a published article that contradicted a different version of the story he told? You mean, exactly like Joseph Smith did not seem to care whether the story that was told had Moroni or Nephi appearing to him? It seems like you are indicting Joseph Smith as a conman here: he apparently didn't give a fig whether people thought it was Moroni or Nephi who appeared to him.

Equality wrote:

Nightlion wrote:How is it mankind discovered natural gas just when they needed it to heat so many hundreds of million homes? Hmm?

Necessity is the mother of invention. You can quote me on it.

Yeah, sure. Fail to give God the glory of sending into the world such fellows as could discover God's resources prepared from the foundation of the world for our cozy delights. Ennoble your thoughts before they all disappear.