My epiphany for the day is that none of this really matters. Now that John Dehlin has returned to the LDS Church and is happy about it, I predict that, if he keeps his head on his shoulders, his future as an LDS member will be a matter of his personal spirituality and how he works with his local leaders.
This means that the apologists gnashing their teeth at MDDB don't matter. They mattered to John when he was deviating from the LDS path enough to be an easy target. Now they don't matter anymore. Not to John.
So I ask myself, what's to trouble myself with here? The tide has changed. The weird explosion of crackpot narratives over at MDDB reveals the weakness of the apologists' position. They are desperately thrashing about to concoct a story in which they don't come out looking bad. Unfortunately for them, it's not possible. This does look really bad for them.
But, more importantly, I don't see any reason to continue to pursue this. These guys aren't going to change. They will be on life support shaking angry fists at the existence of Sunstone or whatever bête noire du jour has them frothing at the mouth.
Hey, I'm not going to change either. I will always admire Phil Barlow, Greg Prince, and others like them, who consistently stand for the best in Mormonism without bullying, belittling, and attacking fellow Mormons.
Maybe I should emulate them instead of falling into the trap of feeding the illusory relevance of bad, untenable, and ultimately doomed apologetics.
It would be much better to ignore it, like I ignore reality tv.
Why It Matters Not
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_Kishkumen
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Why It Matters Not
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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_honorentheos
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 11104
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am
Re: Why It Matters Not
My epiphany for the day is that none of this really matters.
Exactly.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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_cwald
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:53 pm
Re: Why It Matters Not
Yeah. You're probably right.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
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_Madison54
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:37 pm
Re: Why It Matters Not
Kishkumen,
Great post. Great insights. I agree.
Great post. Great insights. I agree.
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_Uther
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 am
Re: Why It Matters Not
Kishkumen wrote:It would be much better to ignore it, like I ignore reality tv.
True, but I suspect that the last appearence of the doughnut quartet(DCP, B.H, W.S, L.M) and the failed shoe bomber(G.S), is yet to come.
And when they make a show, its hard to miss the ripples of it on this forum.
About Joseph Smith.. How do you think his persona was influenced by being the storyteller since childhood? Mastering the art of going pale, changing his voice, and mesmerizing his audience.. How do you think he was influenced by keeping secrets and lying for his wife and the church members for decades?
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_Chap
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am
Re: Why It Matters Not
The Three Stooges didn't matter either.
But we still watched their movies.
But we still watched their movies.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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_DrW
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am
Re: Why It Matters Not
Chap wrote:The Three Stooges didn't matter either.
But we still watched their movies.
+1
(Also like the fact that the response which resonates most with me here is from a nevermo.)
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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_Kishkumen
- _Emeritus
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Re: Why It Matters Not
Hey, if you are just here for the entertainment, that's cool.
I wasn't and am not.
I wasn't and am not.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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_Uther
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 am
Re: Why It Matters Not
Kishkumen wrote:Hey, if you are just here for the entertainment, that's cool.
I wasn't and am not.
I'm here because of the gravitational pull of this forum.
I think that it is somehow related to people like you orbiting it, and making in interesting.
I have lost my faith in the need for salvation, but I'm still searching and hoping for some kind of redemption.
Navigating the borderlands of mormondom in a postapostalyptic state.
About Joseph Smith.. How do you think his persona was influenced by being the storyteller since childhood? Mastering the art of going pale, changing his voice, and mesmerizing his audience.. How do you think he was influenced by keeping secrets and lying for his wife and the church members for decades?
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_sock puppet
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm
Re: Why It Matters Not
I am sure there are as many different reasons people come here as there are people that come here.
Some will be at cross-purposes with others. Two or more purposes may be inconsistent with one another.
A lurker or poster may come here to further his or her purpose to the extent this milieu permits, and stop whenever he or she so chooses.
I like that Dr Shades espouses a strong strain of free speech here. No one is obligated to come here and look at what is posted. So giving wide latitude for free speech is the most accommodating approach, as no one is forced to endure or read what another posts. Each reader comes for his or her own purposes, and may read (or not) what he or she wants.
I like the do-not-disinvite parameter too. It lets everyone have their say, even if another poster perhaps doesn't like it. That other poster of course has the option not to read further.
In short, these two ground rules are the most accommodating, and actually encourage the most diversity. Of course, the weak of heart in their positions might retreat at some point. But the bold will here proclaim.
Some will be at cross-purposes with others. Two or more purposes may be inconsistent with one another.
A lurker or poster may come here to further his or her purpose to the extent this milieu permits, and stop whenever he or she so chooses.
I like that Dr Shades espouses a strong strain of free speech here. No one is obligated to come here and look at what is posted. So giving wide latitude for free speech is the most accommodating approach, as no one is forced to endure or read what another posts. Each reader comes for his or her own purposes, and may read (or not) what he or she wants.
I like the do-not-disinvite parameter too. It lets everyone have their say, even if another poster perhaps doesn't like it. That other poster of course has the option not to read further.
In short, these two ground rules are the most accommodating, and actually encourage the most diversity. Of course, the weak of heart in their positions might retreat at some point. But the bold will here proclaim.