Kishkumen wrote: As it is, John took care of their problem on his own by deciding to return. Now they are just angry that they can't take credit either way, and all this has done is make them look bad. If it didn't cost them their operation to boot.
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It seems that the gist of the piece was right. And the apologists were right too. But with John returning, seeing the error of his ways, all is okay now.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:It seems that the gist of the piece was right. And the apologists were right too. But with John returning, seeing the error of his ways, all is okay now.
Well, why me, that's really big of you. Maybe you can teach others how to be so noble of soul.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
why me wrote:It seems that the gist of the piece was right. And the apologists were right too. But with John returning, seeing the error of his ways, all is okay now.
Well, why me, that's really big of you. Maybe you can teach others how to be so noble of soul.
I certainly was right about john. I saw the damage that he was doing to the lds church and so did the apologists on MDD. So where was the wrong? But now he is back and all is well.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:I certainly was right about john. I saw the damage that he was doing to the lds church and so did the apologists on MDD. So where was the wrong? But now he is back and all is well.
No, I don't think that is true at all. What is really the case is that the LDS Church's failures to educate their own members appropriately and adequately has resulted in a great swell of disaffection in the internet age, of which Mormon Stories was only an epiphenomenon. But, I get it; you, like many other good LDS people, are incapable of seeing that the Church might be responsible for anything going wrong, so you will blame Satan, apostates, doubters, gays, or whoever, instead of the very human failings of a very human group running the LDS Church.
John Dehlin was never the problem. Changing times and a failure of the Church to adapt to them is the problem. Mopologetics was just making things worse. So, the plug was pulled on classic-FARMS.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Kishkumen wrote:Hey, if you are just here for the entertainment, that's cool. I wasn't and am not.
I'm here because of the gravitational pull of this forum. I think that it is somehow related to people like you orbiting it, and making in interesting.
I have lost my faith in the need for salvation, but I'm still searching and hoping for some kind of redemption. Navigating the borderlands of mormondom in a postapostalyptic state.
And how many are here because they claim to have lost their faith but can't help the desire to stay in the loop as it were just in case they decide to discover that the truth is contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ as presented by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and therefore think they can jump back in the pool at the last second to claim salvation?
Then saith He to Thomas... be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27
GR33N wrote:And how many are here because they claim to have lost their faith but can't help the desire to stay in the loop as it were just in case they decide to discover that the truth is contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ as presented by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and therefore think they can jump back in the pool at the last second to claim salvation?
If I believed the church was true I would not be naïve enough to believe that I could fool God with some last second death bed type repentance.
GR33N wrote:And how many are here because they claim to have lost their faith but can't help the desire to stay in the loop as it were just in case they decide to discover that the truth is contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ as presented by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and therefore think they can jump back in the pool at the last second to claim salvation?
Don't count me in your tally, GR33N. I have lost faith. I am not here on the off chance that the inconsistent/baseless claims of the LDS Church are true. If when I die, much to my surprise I am yet a conscious, functioning intelligence and all the LDS gibberish turns out to be correct, I'm willing to deal with the consequences. I'm not here buying an 'insurance policy.'
GR33N wrote:And how many are here because they claim to have lost their faith but can't help the desire to stay in the loop as it were just in case they decide to discover that the truth is contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ as presented by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and therefore think they can jump back in the pool at the last second to claim salvation?
I estimate that number to be somewhere between bubkes and zilch.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The lds church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
GR33N wrote:And how many are here because they claim to have lost their faith but can't help the desire to stay in the loop as it were just in case they decide to discover that the truth is contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ as presented by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and therefore think they can jump back in the pool at the last second to claim salvation?
I think most Mormons and former Mormons know the LDS theology well enough to realize that it does not allow for a classical "death bed salvation". Your suggestion appears to mirror an invented apologist myth.
About Joseph Smith.. How do you think his persona was influenced by being the storyteller since childhood? Mastering the art of going pale, changing his voice, and mesmerizing his audience.. How do you think he was influenced by keeping secrets and lying for his wife and the church members for decades?