New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstandings

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_Madison54
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New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstandings

Post by _Madison54 »

John posted this early this morning over on NOM. I don't see that it's been posted here and I hope he doesn't mind me doing so.

Created in hopes of clearing up misunderstandings re: my recent interview.

http://mormonstories.org/top-5-myths-an ... he-church/

Hope this helps.

John Dehlin


The title is: "Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church"

With this explanation:
"I created this video/presentation for two reasons:

To dispel any misunderstandings about why people leave the church (and what happens to them when they do) that came about as a result of my recent podcast interview, and
I’ve been wanting to update my “Why people leave the LDS church” youtube video for some time to include the results from the “Why Mormons Question” survey.

Please watch and provide feedback if you can…and then share with/ family, friends, and church members/leaders who lack understanding or empathy."


I haven't listened to it yet but will try to this weekend.
_sock puppet
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _sock puppet »

In light of Dehlin's new embrace of LDS activity, I surmise that his reasons for this video and ppt are genuine in trying to help LDS learn the realities about LDS apostasy. I suspect he is trying to dispel the 5 myths, so that the LDS can gain a better understanding of why apostasy occurs, and so that the LDS might be less offensive and not push another LDS out when he or she asks a troubling question.

I think that the COB's purpose in accommodating Dehlin's return and perhaps targeting him as a 'project' for return is to (a) neutralize Dehlin's liberating effect on doubting TBM's, NOMs, and exited apostates, and (b) help innoculate the LDS against the ravaging effects of learning the truth about early LDS history and the evermore problematic inconsistency of LDS truth claims with scientific developments.
_DrW
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _DrW »

Madison54,

Thanks for posting this link.

Graphics here are pretty much the same as the slide presentation I posted yesterday.

It is a big improvement because it includes John's narrative.

It will be very interesting to see how the folks over at MDB will react to this presentation.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_sock puppet
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _sock puppet »

Dehlin addresses the mopologetics at 30:15-35:41 of the presentation.

He identifies four problems that FAIR and NAMIRS cause when a doubting LDS goes to those sources:
  • That the troubling information is there addressed in serious ways, it legitimizes the troubling information (Dehlin: Unavoidable problem if these issues are going to be addressed)
  • The lists of criticisms addressed and the answers themselves often introduce additional problems to the doubting LDS (Dehlin: Unavoidable too if these issues are going to be addressed)
  • There are, at FAIR and NAMIRS, "a lot of bad and faulty answers" that are "unsatisfying", "not effective" and "don't work", although there are some "satisfying answers"
  • Many doubting LDS find the "tone and tactics ... unchristlike" (Dehlin: this is an avoidable problem being worked on and trying to be fixed at both FAIR and NAMIRS).

Dehlin describes those involved at FAIR and NAMIRS as
  • "lots of good people"
  • "their heart is in the right plance"
  • they "do a lot of good work".

I found the third and fourth problems he cites for FAIR and NAMIRS the most interesting. It seems quite likely that the same forces within the Brethren that were instrumental in clearing the way for Dehlin to come back into the LDS fold also had a hand in ejecting the OMIDs from NAMIRS.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Very interesting and intriguing developments. So do you all think the top dogs in the LDS Church are taking John's presentation seriously?
_DrW
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _DrW »

Jason Bourne wrote:Very interesting and intriguing developments. So do you all think the top dogs in the LDS Church are taking John's presentation seriously?

In the video, John claims that his presentation has been given to folks at the "highest levels" in the Church.

The question is; what are they to do about it? Even though John does not say as much, all of the problems to which he refers do not arise from mere misunderstandings.

They arise as a result of institutional lying that has taken place over nearly two centuries.

His graphic showing a roll-off in active membership in the Church since 2006 tells the story.

To me, it looks like the LDS Church will be engaged in a rear guard action from here on in.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Fence Sitter
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _Fence Sitter »

DrW wrote:.

His graphic showing a roll-off in active membership in the Church since 2006 tells the story.

To me, it looks like the LDS Church will be engaged in a rear guard action from here on in.


This is the first time I have seen any data claiming that activate membership numbers are already falling. I wonder how accurate it is?
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_zeezrom
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _zeezrom »

Jason Bourne wrote:Very interesting and intriguing developments. So do you all think the top dogs in the LDS Church are taking John's presentation seriously?

Of course not.
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _Philo Sofee »

I think it is obvious that they ought to start paying attention to Dehlin a wee bit. Their revelations from God certainly hasn't solved much of the problem of members leaving in droves now has it? The leadership appears to be more media savvy than person savvy. Image though, will only get you so far.
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_DrW
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Re: New John Dehlin Video Posted To Dispel Any Misunderstand

Post by _DrW »

Fence Sitter wrote:
DrW wrote:.

His graphic showing a roll-off in active membership in the Church since 2006 tells the story.

To me, it looks like the LDS Church will be engaged in a rear guard action from here on in.


This is the first time I have seen any data claiming that activate membership numbers are already falling. I wonder how accurate it is?


John states that this is really sort of a "metadata graphic" with information drawn from several sources, which he lists.

My sense would be that it reflects reality, if not in precise numbers, at least in important trends.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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