DrW wrote:His graphic showing a roll-off in active membership in the Church since 2006 tells the story.
To me, it looks like the LDS Church will be engaged in a rear guard action from here on in.
Indeed.
From what I can guess his numbers suggest by 2036:
~16 million members of record
~15 million actual members
~<2 million active members
If true that should be scary for the Church leadership. It would peg active members at less than 20% of official membership which is less than even I would have imagined for an actual activity rate within the Church.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07
MASH quotes I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it. I avoid church religiously. This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
why me wrote: Now if members would stick to the basics, they would have no problems.
Hmmmm? I assume you mean the important stuff like wearing white shirts, one set if earrings, abstaining from tea, paying tithing and making sure you have a TR.
Just the important stuff right?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
why me wrote: Now if members would stick to the basics, they would have no problems.
Hmmmm? I assume you mean the important stuff like wearing white shirts, one set if earrings, abstaining from tea, paying tithing and making sure you have a TR.
I appreciate what John is doing here. I think the view TBM's have of apostates is unfortunate and leads to a lot of pain, loss of friends, family relationships, and even divorce at times. How do you solve that probelm though? Unfortunately I suspect many members would not consider watching this presentation. Especially the Mormons with an uncharitable view of apostasy and apostates.
Within the Mormon world view is it possible to believe that good people can leave the church for legtimate reasons? For some it is, but what position does that leave the church in if you believe that? Moreover if you remove the social stigma of leaving the church it would make leaving so much easier that it could lead to the church bleeding out members.
All that aside John is taking active steps to help people and I hope he succeeds. He's a better man than I am since these days I rarely discuss these issues for fear of pushback.
Sammy Jankins wrote:I appreciate what John is doing here. I think the view TBM's have of apostates is unfortunate and leads to a lot of pain, loss of friends, family relationships, and even divorce at times.
Fully agree the presentation (with John's commentary) is fantastic.
How do you solve that probelm though? Unfortunately I suspect many members would not consider watching this presentation. Especially the Mormons with an uncharitable view of apostasy and apostates.
likely more true with us aging baby boomers. Later generations well may be more accepting.
Within the Mormon world view is it possible to believe that good people can leave the church for legtimate reasons? For some it is, but what position does that leave the church in if you believe that? Moreover if you remove the social stigma of leaving the church it would make leaving so much easier that it could lead to the church bleeding out members.
Yes this is the dilemma which church leadership faces ... continue on with cult like deception with the consequences of the current trend, or put truth out there and hope that faith with out deception is much stronger. The leaders need to have faith in their members.
Sammy Jankins wrote:How do you solve that probelm though? Unfortunately I suspect many members would not consider watching this presentation. Especially the Mormons with an uncharitable view of apostasy and apostates.
likely more true with us aging baby boomers. Later generations well may be more accepting.
I used to have an uncharitable view of apostates. That only changed when I learned about the difficult issues. Then I gained empathy for people who chose to leave because I could understand that decision. in my opinion for people to have empathy or understanding of apostates they at least have to have a cursory knowledge of the difficult issues. I think that's why John included a list of the difficult issues in his presentation, because It's hard to have empathy for a position if you don't understand the rationale behind it. Paradoxically though talking about the difficult issues is outside the comfort zone of many believing members so bringing them to a place where they can empathize with those who leave will be difficult.
Sammy Jankins wrote:Paradoxically though talking about the difficult issues is outside the comfort zone of many believing members so bringing them to a place where they can empathize with those who leave will be difficult.
yes, and bringing them out of their comfort zone and becoming educated on the issues well might bring them to their own crisis of faith. Hence why they have been indoctrinated for this to be outside of their comfort zone in the first place (in the correlated material there is safety and peace).
