Another Dehlin Thread!

[_Ceeboo]

Hello soft and gentle people,

Although I can no longer view the MDDB (I seem to have been banned again after a mere few days and a relatively few and short posts), I would like to comment on and perhaps discuss a few of the 'discussions' that are evolving there.

There are two threads that I wanted to toss out there:

The first one is a thread titled "It's not personal", authored by Bill Hamblin.
(Sorry, I can't offer a link as I can no longer see the board)

In addition to the claim made in the OP - that this is not personal against John Dehlin - there were several posts that followed that supported/agreed with this suggestion (In addition to the supportive posts that this was not personal, there were several 'reputation points' awarded to these posts that would seem to lend additional community support to the suggested claim that this is not personal)

Simply put, this blows my mind!
I read about half of the Smith piece and it, without question, is personal.
Period!

The second thread is the John Dehlin/MS paper by Smith.
(Again, I am not able to provide a link. Sorry)

Some of the posts in this thread were not only mind-bending to me but they were also heart-breaking. (Some of the 'reputation points' awarded in this thread made me almost as nauseated as the nauseating posts themselves)

As a never-Mo, here is what I simply don't get:

Mr. Dehlin has returned to the fold, yes?
Many/most of these people are his LDS brethren, yes?
Where is the support, friendship, compassion, understanding, love, fellowship? (Do I dare say Christianity?)

I can only hope that what I see (the information on these internet message boards) is not an accurate reflection of what John Dehlin and his family is currently facing and/or will face, in real life, as his journey continues..........whatever road/roads that journey might take.

Good grief!

To be fair, there were some supportive/loving comments on the threads I mention.

Crazy!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_RockSlider]

Mr. Dehlin has returned to the fold, yes?

yes the wolf is again loose.

Many/most of these people are his LDS brethren, yes?

yes potential victims of the wolf.

Where is the support, friendship, compassion, understanding, love, fellowship? (Do I dare say Christianity?)

to a wolf among the sheep? Hello Ceeboo

by the way, love ya brother

[_Ceeboo]

by the way, love ya brother

Love you back, my Brother!

Thanks for the reply!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_MsJack]

Although I can no longer view the MDDB (I seem to have been banned again after a mere few days and a relatively few and short posts), I would like to comment on and perhaps discuss a few of the 'discussions' that are evolving there.

You know I love you, Ceeboo, but...

Fool you twice, shame on you.

[_Stormy Waters]

For the curious this is the OP from Bill Hamblin's "It is not personal" thread.

I’ve noticed several very strange things about the unfolding of this phase of the Dehlin Affair. First, no one I’ve seen has actually criticized the substantive content of Greg Smith’s articles. No one that I have heard of has claimed that Greg got it wrong. The only claim is that he is incomplete. Second, some of those who criticize Smith’s article do so with a litany of ad hominem insults. Greg (and even more so, his editors) are bad people who have done a bad thing. For some of Dehlin’s supporters, this is a personal vendetta, not a rational discussion of ideas and their implications.

Everyone needs to realize that the article is not about Dehlin as a person. It is not personal. The article is a review of Dehlin’s ideas and practices as reflected in Mormon Stories. That’s it. There is absolutely no reason to personalize this, and neither Greg nor his supporters have tried in the slightest to personalize it. We want the discussion to be about ideas. Dehlin and his supporters have consistently cast this as a war between Good Dehlinites, and Bad Danites. (In fact, one Dehlin supporter sent me an email saying he was going to war against me. Really?) It is Dehlin and his supporters who have consistently ignored ideas and attacked personalities.

Imagine if professor X wrote a book about the Roman army. I write a review of his book saying he misunderstood the nature of the Roman army, and give a list of a dozen serious errors in his book. Then imagine that professor X’s friend began to object that X is a really nice man, who volunteers at a homeless shelter each weekend, and is a loving husband and father. The friend then says I am a vile and nasty man for criticizing X, while not mentioning X’s good qualities in my review of his book on the Roman army. My reply would simply be that X’s marvelous character has precisely nothing to do with whether or not he is right about the Roman army. This is, in fact, the reverse ad hominem--to argue that because professor X has many noble and endearing qualities, we should not criticize his book on the Roman army. And it’s hogwash.

Some people have criticized the article saying that it does not present a full picture of Dehlin. That’s very true. But the article never claimed to. And there is not reason to think it should have. Dehlin may be a marvelous and loving father. But this has nothing to do with the review. I’m sure Dehlin sincerely believes he is trying to help people. But this has nothing to do with the review. Dehlin may be a veritable saint among men, but it would still have nothing to do with the review.

Greg did not set out to write a complete biography or intellectual history of Dehlin. If he had Greg would certainly have included things about Dehlin’s wonderful qualities. But, the article is not about Dehlin as a person. It is a critique of Dehlin’s ideas and practices on Mormon Stories. The abysmal failure of many of Dehlin's supporters to separate ideas from personalities means that their only response is about the wickedness of Greg and his supporters.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Jack!

You know I love you, Ceeboo, but...

Fool you twice, shame on you.

As is often the case, you're right, friend.

Love you too!

(Two people have said they love me in this very thread! Feeling very confident this day!)

Stormy - Thanks for posting the thread OP!

(Wondering why Stormy did not mention he/she loves Ceeboo?)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Ceeboo]

Hey folks,

For those of you that can still see/read the MDDB, has there been any interesting developments in these two threads over there?

Are they evolving or have they fizzled out and dropped down the page?

Thanks in advance for the updates!

(by the way: Is there a way to get around the "You are not allowed to visit this community" message? Maybe to just read the board without having an account/logging in?)

That message makes Ceeboo sad!

Peace,
Ceeboo