Did any of you go on missions? I don't recall any bossing around by anyone except perhaps the mission president, bishops, or area presidencies.
Zone and district leaders never did bossing around of anyone.
Are you crapping me? It happens all the time. It happens even within companionship...you know, the whole SENIOR companionship rank and file system. God, talk about denial and defending the church at all costs...including logic and reason and obvious facts. And yeah Stem...I did go on a mission.
Anyway. Great website and a great concept. It will happen...it's just a matter of when there is enough social pressure to motivate "God" to the give the order.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Did any of you go on missions? I don't recall any bossing around by anyone except perhaps the mission president, bishops, or area presidencies.
Zone and district leaders never did bossing around of anyone.
Are you s******g me? It happens all the time. It happens even within companionship...you know, the whole SENIOR companionship rank and file system. God, talk about denial and defending the church at all costs...including logic and reason and obvious facts. And yeah Stem...I did go on a mission.
Anyway. Great website and a great concept. It will happen...it's just a matter of when there is enough social pressure to motivate "God" to the give the order.
If enough women stopped paying tithing and refused to serve in any callings etc until women become eligible for the Priesthood then a revelation would be forthcoming. Activism and a threat to income is what the Church responds to.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
beanboots wrote:I don't agree. If that we're the case, we'd see gay temple marriages next conference.
If all the adult women of the Church decided today to immediately stop paying tithing and stopped fulfilling callings one of two things would happen: 1. The Church would collapse and cease to operate. It would be financially bankrupt. 2. The women would be given the Priesthood.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
I noticed that V.H. Cassler/Valerie Hudson has posted "reflections" on the ordainwomen.org website.
There is much to admire about this effort. One only has to read the profiles to feel there is much good-heartedness there, and much reflection. Clearly evident is a sincere desire to improve gender relations in the Church to more closely match a more heavenly ideal, and to offer balm to souls wounded by the current state of those relations within our faith community and within the broader society.
However, I must also confess to a strong reaction, which has no label in our language, but feels like the urge to laugh and to cry at the same time. As a feminist, the idea that men would ever have the right or ability to give women divine power strikes me as deeply anti-feminist. Are we saying that only with the permission of men and by the hand of men can women partake of divine power? And that since male permission has not been forthcoming to this point, women in fact possess no divine power at present? That we women are reduced to pleading with men to give us our power? A laugh wells up in me at the sheer irony of this “feminist” position, but at the very same moment, I also feel to weep bitter tears in the realization that only a profoundly toxic culture for women could produce a situation where good-hearted women and men advocate an anti-feminist position as a step forward for women.
Please do not misunderstand. I am not opposing the ordination of women to divine power. Not at all—I am suggesting they already possess divine power and authority, and not by the hand of men and not by the “permission” of men. Dorothy already has those ruby slippers on; she just hasn’t realized it yet. And it is plain no man can tell her this truth; she has to learn it for herself. When she does learn, she will then seek to fully hold her birthright, and no longer mistakenly plead for a man to bequeath it to her. As women more fully wield their birthright of divine power, our community will finally be able to approach Zion. All heaven waits for the rising of the daughters of Zion, for the last shall be first and the first last in the fullness of time.
It is quite possible that something like ordainwomen.org is part of that learning process, and thus to be welcomed for the discussion it brings. But the approach taken by ordainwomen.org is also a symptom and a sign that our culture has profoundly distorted our vision on these matters.
Cassler leaves out the Hafens' "translation" of Genesis 3:16 (interpreting "rule over" to mean "rule with") this time (although one of the commenters appeals to it), but she cites L. Tom Perry's characterization of the husband and the wife as "co-presidents of the family" in his April 2004 general conference address without acknowledging that the published version of that same address omits that statement.
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac
I foresee a problem with this whole idea. I think the idea of an all male priesthood is so ingrained in the men of the church (not just the Brethren, but the rank and file male member) that the idea of woman bishop is just horrifying to them. A woman with authority? A woman who receives divine communication about them? A wife who has God-given authority OVER her husband due to her calling?
Unthinkable. Impossible. God would not allow men to be so humiliated.
I think there would be some marriages on the rocks, should this happen, simply because most Mormon men cannot be subservient to a woman. It would be very hard for them to have a female boss, should that be their misfortune at their job; having a female bishop would be the last straw.
We've got a ways to go.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
beanboots wrote:I don't agree. If that we're the case, we'd see gay temple marriages next conference.
If all the adult women of the Church decided today to immediately stop paying tithing and stopped fulfilling callings one of two things would happen: 1. The Church would collapse and cease to operate. It would be financially bankrupt. 2. The women would be given the Priesthood.
If the adult women withheld tithing, how long would it take till there was a change?
If the adult women stopped fulfilling callings, how long would it take till there was a change?
If the adult women withheld other things, how long would it take till there was a change? (does this one need a smiley?) Has there been any discussion of this (seemingly obvious) point?
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
harmony wrote:I foresee a problem with this whole idea. I think the idea of an all male priesthood is so ingrained in the men of the church (not just the Brethren, but the rank and file male member) that the idea of woman bishop is just horrifying to them. A woman with authority? A woman who receives divine communication about them? A wife who has God-given authority OVER her husband due to her calling?
Unthinkable. Impossible. God would not allow men to be so humiliated.
Can you imagine males having to confess their sexual sins to a female bishop? Obviously it's just as bad as having females confess to male bishops, but I don't think the guys will appreciate the role reversal.
harmony wrote:I foresee a problem with this whole idea. I think the idea of an all male priesthood is so ingrained in the men of the church (not just the Brethren, but the rank and file male member) that the idea of woman bishop is just horrifying to them. A woman with authority? A woman who receives divine communication about them? A wife who has God-given authority OVER her husband due to her calling?
Unthinkable. Impossible. God would not allow men to be so humiliated.
Can you imagine males having to confess their sexual sins to a female bishop? Obviously it's just as bad as having females confess to male bishops, but I don't think the guys will appreciate the role reversal.
... apart from the ones that would enjoy it ...
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
