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I sent a missionary home early once; a companion of mine who was sent to me by the mission prez and his parents (because I was from the same state) in hopes I could reform him. He was not suited for the work, very immature, and dead set on leaving. He came out only because of his parents and his girlfriend. I ultimately offered to drive him to the airport myself and watch him get on the plane and not say a word until he was in the air. It didn't turn out to be that drastic fortunately. But I feel I was able to bond with him and give him some good counsel. After he got home, he was able to marry in the temple (to that same girlfriend) and hold a calling in the EQP not long after.

What!? You mean he was actually able to contribute to society and his church in a meaningful way even though he "threw in the towel" and wasn't "man enough" to hack a mission? Unheard of!!! This must be an exception to the rule. I am sure he secretly regrets missing out on creepy companions, tracting, guilt trips over numbers, sycophantic ladder climbing DL's/ ZL's and so on.

Not even in the 1980's when this occurred, was this an exception to the rule. And yes, I'm sure he does regret it since I actually know him somewhat still. He sometimes tells me he wishes he could have gained that experience and knowledge which comes from serving a mission and which he sees that I have.

That doesn't sound like you "sent a missionary home early", more like you "offered to help a missionary who wanted to go home early".

Sure I did. The MP left it in my capable (assuming he thought so) hands. After one month, I gave him my opinion and he agreed with me. This missionary didn't really even try. He lay in bed all night whimpering at the sounds of the traffic and helicopters (Los Angeles). He howled at women as we passed by, etc. An obvious faker but it was his immature way of demonstrating he would not try. I gave him my best demonstrations of hard work, teaching discussions, contacting people etc. and tried to get him to do something, showing that it's not too hard when you have a companion to support you and that you can have fun learning and yes, even bashing. No dice.

Sounds like you were trying to overstep your level of authority to me...

I was just being a man; doing my best and then relating my honest opinion. If the MP would not have sent him home, I would have done at the airport exactly as I promised. by the way, later on, I was made a DL, and then a ZL. Six months each. I certainly didn't want those callings at the time. But I am certainly not ashamed of how I performed them nor do I regret them in any way and consider it a blessing.

While a ZL, we surprised a low performing companionship by coming over to visit for lunch. We found them still in bed playing Nintendo. After frank discussion, we found out that both were slated to go home in just a few months. Neither had had any success their whole mission. We testified that if they worked hard and faithfully for the remaining time, the Lord would bless them and they would be able to address their respective wards when they got home with a semblance of honor. We checked back from time to time and they did seem to be doing the work. Just a week or two before they went home, they had an adult convert baptism and we rejoiced with them. Can you imagine the difference in their testimonies? It was huge and I wish I could have heard their homecoming talks.

It also portrays that setting an arbitrary age threshold for serving a mission is damaging.
People mature at different ages and pressuring all young men (I don't think young women receive the same pressure) to serve missions at 18 is going to cause problems for those who reach mental and emotional maturity later. A mission doesn't solve that, it makes it worse. A more sensible solution would be to allow young men the unpressured space to determine for themselves at what age they serve a mission. The Church won't do that, because by the time they have reached mental and emotional maturity they have discovered to Church isn't what they were told it was during Primary and Youth.

Let me declare a bias. I believe proselytising missions are wrong. I believe affording young people the opportunity to serve for a period in a humanitarian way (service missions) is right. How many people serving humanitarian/service missions come home early? that's right, significantly less than (if indeed any) proselytising missionaries. Hmmm....

I disagree. While I do agree that people mature at different rates, the "arbitrary" (revelatory imho) dates set are inspired. The differing rate will cause difficulty for some, but that's just part of the process. Some will have to work harder to make the deadline. It's just part of life and the rest of humanity imitates this true principle as well. If everything were just so...well, that is Satan's plan because it removes the various enticements towards good and evil, success and failure. Quit being such a Marxist.

Bazooka wrote:Let me declare a bias. I believe proselytising missions are wrong. I believe affording young people the opportunity to serve for a period in a humanitarian way (service missions) is right. How many people serving humanitarian/service missions come home early? that's right, significantly less than (if indeed any) proselytising missionaries. Hmmm....

The Church could do some real good if they converted from proselytising missions to real hunanitarian/service missions. The missionaries would get so much more out of it and I would bet that "return missionary" retention rates would go up. It would need to be real service, not helping people to move or cleaning up city parks; all nice things, but working on clean water projects, building schools, clinics, etc all under the supervision of trained engineers supervisiors etc.

son of Ishmael wrote:

Bazooka wrote:Let me declare a bias. I believe proselytising missions are wrong. I believe affording young people the opportunity to serve for a period in a humanitarian way (service missions) is right. How many people serving humanitarian/service missions come home early? that's right, significantly less than (if indeed any) proselytising missionaries. Hmmm....

The Church could do some real good if they converted from proselytising missions to real hunanitarian/service missions. The missionaries would get so much more out of it and I would bet that "return missionary" retention rates would go up. It would need to be real service, not helping people to move or cleaning up city parks; all nice things, but working on clean water projects, building schools, clinics, etc all under the supervision of trained engineers supervisiors etc.

Exactly that ^ Ishmael Jnr...

son of Ishmael wrote:

Bazooka wrote:Let me declare a bias. I believe proselytising missions are wrong. I believe affording young people the opportunity to serve for a period in a humanitarian way (service missions) is right. How many people serving humanitarian/service missions come home early? that's right, significantly less than (if indeed any) proselytising missionaries. Hmmm....

The Church could do some real good if they converted from proselytising missions to real hunanitarian/service missions. The missionaries would get so much more out of it and I would bet that "return missionary" retention rates would go up. It would need to be real service, not helping people to move or cleaning up city parks; all nice things, but working on clean water projects, building schools, clinics, etc all under the supervision of trained engineers supervisiors etc.

Oh, you mean that the LDS Church should morph from its multi-level marketing, Franklin Planner-like moorings into more of a ... church?

bcspace wrote:I sent a missionary home early once; a companion of mine who was sent to me by the mission prez and his parents (because I was from the same state) in hopes I could reform him. He was not suited for the work, very immature, and dead set on leaving. He came out only because of his parents and his girlfriend. I ultimately offered to drive him to the airport myself and watch him get on the plane and not say a word until he was in the air. It didn't turn out to be that drastic fortunately. But I feel I was able to bond with him and give him some good counsel. After he got home, he was able to marry in the temple (to that same girlfriend) and hold a calling in the EQP not long after.

Unless you were mission president, you didn't send a missionary home, early, once, or at all.

beastie wrote:

bcspace wrote:I sent a missionary home early once; a companion of mine who was sent to me by the mission prez and his parents (because I was from the same state) in hopes I could reform him. He was not suited for the work, very immature, and dead set on leaving. He came out only because of his parents and his girlfriend. I ultimately offered to drive him to the airport myself and watch him get on the plane and not say a word until he was in the air. It didn't turn out to be that drastic fortunately. But I feel I was able to bond with him and give him some good counsel. After he got home, he was able to marry in the temple (to that same girlfriend) and hold a calling in the EQP not long after.

Unless you were mission president, you didn't send a missionary home, early, once, or at all.

Oh, beastie, in your striving for correct use of language and recognition of the channels of authority in LDS Church, you might be missing the glimpse into bcspace that is so telling from his claim to have sent a missionary home.

This is just a guess, but I am getting the impression there is considerable doubt bcspace served as a Mission Prez.

Just a question for bcspace

How many times did you masturbate on your mission and were you honest with your mission president on the 'sin"? did you feel relief confessing it ?

and since you were so mature as missionary what counsel did you give companions how how to address mastrubtion on their own situations?

fianlly i wonder WWJD in the case of a not so mature mish companion- somehow i can't see Jesus telling one of his apostles to leave the group for any written.

remember you are under oath to your Lord to answer truthfully- of course is masturbation is too sacred to talk about, i certainly understand.

just wondering

kairos

beastie wrote:

bcspace wrote:I sent a missionary home early once; a companion of mine who was sent to me by the mission prez and his parents (because I was from the same state) in hopes I could reform him. He was not suited for the work, very immature, and dead set on leaving. He came out only because of his parents and his girlfriend. I ultimately offered to drive him to the airport myself and watch him get on the plane and not say a word until he was in the air. It didn't turn out to be that drastic fortunately. But I feel I was able to bond with him and give him some good counsel. After he got home, he was able to marry in the temple (to that same girlfriend) and hold a calling in the EQP not long after.

Unless you were mission president, you didn't send a missionary home, early, once, or at all.

If an apostate were to suggest to a local missionary who was struggling, that they go home from their mission and indeed, even offered to take them to the airport and only advise the MP of the departure once the plane was in the air - that would be classed as "anti-mormon", right?

I suspect the incident where bcspace did this is perhaps the catalyst for Mission Presidents now confiscating missionaries passports on arrival in the mission field.

Oh, beastie, in your striving for correct use of language and recognition of the channels of authority in LDS Church, you might be missing the glimpse into bcspace that is so telling from his claim to have sent a missionary home.

Since you're worried, overmuch, by semantics, perhaps it is better to say that he sent himself home. I merely opposed trying to keep him out when he so obviously didn't want to be there and wasn't going to try to do the work. I sent him home in the sense that I prevailed upon the prez to end the standoff and would have ended it myself if he didn't.

This is just a guess, but I am getting the impression there is considerable doubt bcspace served as a Mission Prez.

There isn't even any indication bcspace ever claimed to be a mission prez.