Is the LDS Church Different Today from 35-Years Ago?

[_Sethbag]

Now with the LDS Church's admonitions to use only correlated material in all church settings, I am beginning to feel that we have transitioned over to the JW side of things. Even our artwork is starting to look jaydoubleyewy. All we need is a child petting a Siberian tiger in a Technicolor Paradise Earth.

I recall telling my brother that Mormons believed that learning about other religions helps us to appreciate our own religion. That felt so right to me. It came from a position of strength and security; a position of not being afraid of other churches and philosophies.

I frankly can't remember where I heard this sentiment, but I must have heard it from what I considered an authoritative source because I repeated it to my brother.

I remember (on my mission) going to someone's house who was a JW and he had someone else with him. They were pretty high up in their Kingdom Hall. The guy pulled out this three-ring binder with all this information on other religions (the information the JWs wanted them to have, ie: the JW version of the truth about Mormons) and started laying it all on me.

I was able to dispute a lot of what he said, and came back with a lot of stuff I knew about the JWs. He asked me if I'd gotten my information from a similar binder from the Mormons with a JW section. I said no, I got it by reading the JW books. He seemed genuinely shocked by that. I said our church doesn't really tell us anything about other religions (other than that they're not true), and everything I know about other religions I got from the source, ie: talking to people in those religions, reading their books, and so forth. He didn't seem to want to believe me, but after I mentioned enough JW books and such in our conversation he accepted that.

It didn't change his mind.

He still burned the Book of Mormon I gave him for Christmas of 1978.

I actually had a (recently baptised) JW read the entire Book of Mormon in about a week or so, and I thought we would baptise him. Then our next appointment he was not alone, but had a couple of very senior JWs from his Kingdom Hall with him. They were extremely rude and obviously angry at us, and the guy who'd read the Book of Mormon was contrite and had obviously been chastened. We bashed for a while, then left, and weren't invited back for anymore discussions with that guy anymore.

The JW "damage control" party had done its job well. It reminded me a lot of those movies where a submarine is diving too deep, under depth charge attack or whatever, and guys are starting to freak out. Then rivets start popping and water starts shooting in under high pressure. Then a pipe blows and the water is flooding in, but the damage control party takes a monkey wrench and turns something on a pipe and in a herculean effort stems the flooding and stabilizes the boat. The lights blink a few times, the crew is certain they're about to die, but eventually they pull it off, surface the boat, and live to tell about it.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Tell me how Che Guevara "stood up for human rights," Bob,

Why would you think I would support a murderous totalitarian like Che?

or how Allende and his neighborhood snitch groups modeled after Castro's Committees for the Defense of the Revolution promoted democracy and human rights (not to mention his own Marxist death squads roaming Chile eliminating recalcitrant "bourgeois elements" within Chilean society)?

It's telling that you think the only alternative to an elected leftist government is the violent overthrow of said government and the murder of thousands of citizens, thus inadvertently confirming my suspicions of your capabilities. And perhaps you should read more, instead of relying on FrontPageMag for your history.

[_Droopy]

It's telling that you think the only alternative to an elected leftist government is the violent overthrow of said government and the murder of thousands of citizens, thus inadvertently confirming my suspicions of your capabilities. And perhaps you should read more, instead of relying on FrontPageMag for your history.

Allende was a murderous authoritarian/totalitarian too, Bob. So was Hitler, and he came to power with the overwhelming support of much of the German population.

It's telling that you think the only alternative to an elected leftist government is the violent overthrow of said government and the murder of thousands of citizens, thus inadvertently confirming my suspicions of your capabilities.

Where did I say this?

[_Bob Loblaw]

Allende was a murderous authoritarian/totalitarian too, Bob.

I'm assuming you have some documentary evidence of Allende's murderous ways. Didn't think so.

Allende's big mistake was in trying to restructure the military, which as in most Latin American countries, essentially holds a gun to the head of every elected government. Further, his government refused to enforce judicial decisions against its policies, which is probably the most "totalitarian" thing Allende did. And it didn't help that he nationalized the telephone system, which ITT had invested a lot of money in. ITT funded an opposition newspaper and funneled money to the coup organizers. Pretty much every "revolution" in Latin America, every coup d'etat, can be traced to money and protection of interest groups. The idea that somehow the Pinochet coup was a defense against totalitarianism is a laughable fantasy.

So was Hitler, and he came to power with the overwhelming support of much of the German population.

Wow. Allende as Hitler. Hyperbolic much?

Where did I say this?

Um, when you said that the Pinochet coup was justified because of Allende's death squads.

[_Fence Sitter]

[


Allende was a murderous authoritarian/totalitarian too, Bob..

Thank God he was over thrown because Pinochet was sooo much better!!

[_Bob Loblaw]

Thank God he was over thrown because Pinochet was sooo much better!!

For a reality check on the alleged atrocities committed by the Allende regime:

http://www.economist.com/node/184063

[_thews]

39 years ago, I remember my mother telling me about a young black girl who asked why she couldn't be a Mormon. My mother's response was, "I still haven't figured that one out." 5 years later it would be figured out, as the Mormon God changed his mind and allowed the "dark and loathsome" men to carry the same power as the "white and delightsome" men.

As a kid, I would spend my summers in Utah. My Mormon uncles all dropped the N bomb like it was nothing.

When I went on a Boy Scout fishing trip in So Cal a few years after I ditched Mormonism (about 35 years ago), the fathers who took us grabbed their binoculars when we passed Paradise Cove (a nude beach). We didn't get to see what they saw, but we heard what they saw... doubt that would happen today.

In a nutshell, the internet has exposed Mormonism and the lies it attempts to hide. It's only a matter of time before the bubble bursts and the TBM's all find out their doctrine comes from magical seer stones out of a hat and a failed translation from the book of the dead. I predict 10 years from now Mormonism will be far different than the difference 35 years ago.

[_Maureen]

...Is the LDS Church different today from 35-years ago?...

I don't post here much and I'm non-LDS but I was introduced to the Mormon church in 1976 when I was a teenager and from my perspective, it definitely has changed a lot. My LDS friend invited me to many activities; there were: Road shows, Dance festival (our group did the Charleston), youth dances (which were fun and very popular), education week, ward camping (for the girls anyway), mother & daughter day (I invited my mother to this but she would not come, so my friend's Laurel advisor asked me if she could attend with me - there was a cake decorating contest and we made a cake together, we did a terrible job but it was a lot of fun :)). This same Laurel advisor invited the Laurel class to her home for a sleepover or sometimes would get a bunch of girls together to go TP someone's house. (TPing was also more popular 35 years ago then now). Halloween ward activity, choir singing, Christmas Carol singing, mutual activities (one I remember was when the boys (priesthood class?) made food for the Laurel class.) I'm sure there were more I just can't remember them all. (My friend's Laurel advisor was such a nice, authentic person, I named my daughter after her).

Coke or anything with caffeine was taboo, blacks could not have the priesthood due to a combination of not being valiant in the pre-existence and the curse of Cain. Polygamy was acknowledged (my LDS friend told me right from the beginning about polygamy). At that time Mormons didn't seem to mind not being called Christian, they were still very proud to be identified as a "peculiar people". There were no mini-temples, people had to travel for hours to attend a Temple, no ring ceremonies. Cross jewelry was also taboo (although I don't know if this has changed that much).

(I did take the discussions when I was 17 and was planning on getting baptized but my parents would not give their permission. Less than 2 years later, I changed my mind and never did join the LDS church. It worked out for the best.)

I'm positive that the LDS church will be quite different in another 35 to 40 years.

M.

[_ludwigm]

You are an odd duck, Droopy.

Odd.

A very courteous word. There would be a dozen less courteous but more fitting.

[_consiglieri]

You are an odd duck, Droopy.

Or would you rather be a fish?

I'd rather carry moonbeams home in a jar.