LDS things that are false if cafeteria Mo's are right

[_Darth J]

They didn't know of the "earth", the rest of it, the peoples, the roundness, etc.
All they knew was what they knew. "Earth" historically has been used as a common statement to describe the "land" in which people lived. If you don't know that, then you clearly don't read history, and I can't teach you it here.

All they knew is what they knew? They were not prophets who received divine knowledge from your deity?

I have to say, this assertion that whoever wrote Genesis could not have known that would be more convincing if Mormon scripture did not consistently confirm that the flood was global.

Maybe ldsfaqs could read the Book of Moses some time, since he obviously never has before.

[_Darth J]

The "earth" could easily have meant their area..... It should be noted that ancients didn't actually know we were an "earth". Thus, to interpret their words simply the same way we would, would be inaccurate.

Maybe ldsfaqs could read the Book of Abraham, the Book of Moses, or the Book of Mormon some time, each of which indicate that ancient prophets were shown by God that we live on an "earth" in the same way modern people understand that.

[_huckelberry]

We're talking about specifically about the LDS doctrine about the atonement of Jesus Christ. This thread is not suggesting that evolution precludes belief in a God (Abarahamic or otherwise) or a belief in Jesus Christ (keeping in mind that Christians have many different beliefs about how exactly Jesus saved the world). However, LDS doctrine and the LDS concept of the atonement operate in a very specific framework that assumes the Adam and Eve story is literally true and that there was no death or reproduction at all on the Earth, nor any other human beings on Earth, prior to Adam and Eve being cast out of the Garden of Eden.

ETA: and everything I said goes out the window does so because they purport to be modern revelation confirming the literalness of these events. The entire LDS narrative of human origins and history is based on the alleged reality of these events. Tell me, for example, how D&C 116 (identifying Spring Hill, MO as Adam-ondi-ahman) could be a real revelation from God if Adam never really existed. And how Joseph Smith was a real prophet if he is either delusional or lying in claiming to be receiving revelations about a person who never existed and events that never happened.

Darth j, what you have said here makes good sense to me.

[_Tobin]

Darth j, what you have said here makes good sense to me.

No it doesn't. All he's doing is just knocking down his own misconceptions of what Mormonism teaches and then derives faulty conclusions from the fact that evolution is likely true.

[_SteelHead]

Tobin,
Have you actually read the Book of Moses?

[_Juggler Vain]

If the following is your thesis...

The LDS Church does not expect its members to believe in a literal worldwide flood and Tower of Babel. You can believe something else, or harmonize measurable reality somehow, with those LDS beliefs.

...then you need to explain how this doesn't destroy your position:

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-f ... l?lang=eng

Where, in official LDS publications, is this direct and unambiguous statement of LDS belief contradicted?

-JV

[_Tobin]

If the following is your thesis...

The LDS Church does not expect its members to believe in a literal worldwide flood and Tower of Babel. You can believe something else, or harmonize measurable reality somehow, with those LDS beliefs.

...then you need to explain how this doesn't destroy your position:

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-f ... l?lang=eng

Where, in official LDS publications, is this direct and unambiguous statement of LDS belief contradicted?

-JV

Last I checked, Donald W Parry wasn't God. So, my position is I could care less what he has to say.

[Guest]

If the following is your thesis...

The LDS Church does not expect its members to believe in a literal worldwide flood and Tower of Babel. You can believe something else, or harmonize measurable reality somehow, with those LDS beliefs.

...then you need to explain how this doesn't destroy your position:

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-f ... l?lang=eng

Where, in official LDS publications, is this direct and unambiguous statement of LDS belief contradicted?

-JV

Last I checked, Donald W Parry wasn't God. So, my position is I could care less what he has to say.

Donald W. Parry was neither purporting to be God nor purporting to speak from personal knowledge of these events. He was summarizing what Mormon leaders who claim to speak on God's behalf have taught.

And as impressive as it is for Tobin to constantly appeal to the authority of his hallucination close encounter of the third kind, which according to his own story did not involve whatever he saw identifying itself or telling him anything about Mormonism, the weight to be given to his assertion of "speaking to God" can be determined by comparing what he claims he knows because of God with discernible reality.

Or I guess you could take the Tobin view, in which schizophrenia trumps the scientific method, because whatever you claim to have learned from some unverifiable experience is more important than objective fact.

[_Darth J]

Darth j, what you have said here makes good sense to me.

No it doesn't. All he's doing is talking about what the LDS Church demonstrably teaches instead of the alien Star Trek space opera I make up as I go along and insist is Mormonism.

[_Nightlion]

In addition, there is no conflict with LDS doctrine and evolution.

I suppose you happened to have failed to read my post last Sunday on that other thread:

This is what Mormonism should think about the mythology of evolution:

D&C 76:
23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

and

Moses 1
27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God.
28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.
29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.
30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?
31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.



Moses saw countless worlds many which had gone out of existence already, each called EARTH and each with an Adam or a first man per world. Every world was subject to the same God and Savior begotten of God in the same gospel. No other Gods folks. Believe it or stop calling yourself Mormon, or like me, a child of the Restoration.

The Big Bang of evolutionary mythology is the kill shot for God. If you accept that mythology you cannot believe in the God of LDS scripture.

It is also absurd for those who embrace evolutionary mythology to think that they are atheists as they have faith in the existence of their panoply or gods who brought forth and governed each act. I think that they mock the one true God so not to have to be embarrassed for believing in so many absurd gods themselves. They are trying to fool us that their science is sterile of gods but their faith in them is absolute and without substance other than the telling of it like a bedtime story for all the gullible children of the world to grow up believing and following their traditions. Otherwise, kiddies who learn of them, there is hell to pay and you will not get ahead nor a good job or renown and acceptance and published. Oh hell yeah. Their religion is a cruel lord and ruthless bastard.