Page 2 of 7

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:37 am
by _Fiannan
One must note that Sweden is one of the most hostile nations in regards to anyone believing in anything aside from feminism and really bad pop music.

Aside from that, one must note two things. I have read many accounts of people raised in more liberal mainstream Protestant denominations, you know, "God is love" sorts of congregations that when they finally sit down and read the Old Testament and ethnic cleansing portions they lose all faith. I think this can happen if the LDS Church ignores issues like polygamy. That leaves young people and converts to have to learn for themselves about polygamy from hostile sources.

The second thing is how someone can present a historical fact. For instance, one can find examples on the internet where once patriotic Americans lose that reverence once they find out the founders of the USA were in large part occultists. Now the thing is once you use terms like "occultists" people conjure up images of naked people with pentagram stars sacrificing virgins. However, occultism can just mean that one is seeking hidden knowledge. So yes, most of the Founding Fathers were Masons and others, such as Franklin, were involved in much more secretive and deeper organizations. However, many still will not get past that occult thing and will distrust everything about the foundations of the USA. Although that big statue of Inanna in New York, of the penis of Osiris in Washington, DC at least makes for interesting reading. Maybe history books in government schools should deal with some of the background of the men who founded America. Oh wait, that would involve critical thinking and American schoolkids are not supposed to be exposed to that.

I think the best way Mormons can discuss issues, particularly with kids, is to be open and honest about it. In fact I joke with my young daughters about how much nagging Brigham Young probably received from all those wives.

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:53 am
by _malkie
Stormy Waters wrote:http://mormonstories.org/hans-mattsson/

I'd like to draw special attention to a transcript of an "emergency" meeting with Marlin K. Jensen and other church leaders and doubters.

Found here:

http://mormonstories.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Turley_Jensen_Stockholm_2010.pdf

From what I've read so far the church leaders, including Marlin K. Jensen do very poorly.


I don't understand why the church keeps sending GAs - whatever are they thinking?

Clearly they should have sent a committee consisting of bcspace, Droopy, and ldsfaqs.

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:13 pm
by _gramps
malkie wrote:

Clearly they should have sent a committee consisting of bcspace, Droopy, and ldsfaqs.


I agree. I would add WhyMe to the mix, however. Now, that would be a winning combination! The Church would have to build hundreds of new chapels, what with all the reactivation that would be sure to follow.

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:16 pm
by _malkie
gramps wrote:malkie wrote:

malkie wrote:Clearly they should have sent a committee consisting of bcspace, Droopy, and ldsfaqs.


I agree. I would add WhyMe to the mix, however. Now, that would be a winning combination! The Church would have to build hundreds of new chapels, what with all the reactivation that would be sure to follow.

I'm not sure, gramps. Adding whyme might turn them all Catholic :rolleyes:

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:01 pm
by _Arrakis
MJ:I’d like you to know that as a Church history department we have at President Packer’s direction put together a committee to create answers to difficult gospel questions. We are working on these answers now and we’re also giving thought to how we will disseminate these answers to the world. We don’t want a website where people come to Mormon problems, obviously. But you’ll find, if you go to these websites, answers that you can rely on to almost all of your questions, including Adam-God. But we’ll give you our best answers. We wanted you to know tonight there are answers


Q: Do the church stand behind these websites?

MJ: Well they’re all church institutions. They’re either BYU or private institutions that
are handled by very reliable and good Latter-day Saints.

RT: So they’re not official church websites. We do have some official church things that
are being developed for example

Q: I tried to find the church own versions about these things.

RT: They don’t exist


Packer is gonna fix this

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:05 pm
by _Arrakis
MJ: We’ve brought a handout for you. These are the five very best websites for authentic answers to those questions. Let me just say if you spend as much time on these five websites as you spent on o
ther websites cause I have visited as has Brother Turley some of these anti-Mormon websites. And they’re very dark to me. And BrotherTurley and I know many of the people who maintain these websites, and I can say to you they’re not the people whose teachings I’m going to follow


Does anyone know the "five very best websites" and which "anti-mormon websites" he's referring to?

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:48 pm
by _malkie
Arrakis wrote:
MJ: We’ve brought a handout for you. These are the five very best websites for authentic answers to those questions. Let me just say if you spend as much time on these five websites as you spent on o
ther websites cause I have visited as has Brother Turley some of these anti-Mormon websites. And they’re very dark to me. And BrotherTurley and I know many of the people who maintain these websites, and I can say to you they’re not the people whose teachings I’m going to follow


Does anyone know the "five very best websites" and which "anti-mormon websites" he's referring to?

I'd guess that mormondiscussions.com and mormonthink.com are likely among the 5 best, and that perhaps the FAIR website is the anti-mormon one to avoid.

YMMV :lol:

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:44 pm
by _Equality
bcspace wrote:Well, I have read the Turley_Jensen_Stockholm transcript and frankly I could have answered the questions better than they did

If that were the case, one would think that you would have done so somewhere in your 14,672 posts at this forum.

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:12 pm
by _Megacles
Call me odd--and I do feel for Mr. Mattsson and wish him and his family only the best--but stories like these are sort-of exciting for me. Why? Because I have long wanted the church to embrace more fully its own history, including both problems and triumphs; both faith-promoting and problematic. That is the nature of history, after all.

Stories like these help the church move more quickly toward that end.

If Latter-day Saints were to take the time to become more interested in their faith's history, the shock of learning about something troubling would be diminished or rendered altogether absent. Sure, the material has always been available, but it has been a challenge to find it (one would have to visit the Harold B. Lee Library, or the "academic" section of Deseret Book). If the material were actually presented to the saints, I think, as a whole, we would be a better church for it.

Re: The LDS problems in Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:18 pm
by _harmony
Megacles wrote: If the material were actually presented to the saints, I think, as a whole, we would be a better church for it.


And that is why it's never going to happen.

The Brethren like the church members exactly as they are... faithful, blind, and paying their tithes.