DiscussMormonism.com

More Swedish problems...

Speakers: Elder Marlin K. Jensen (LDS Church Historian) and Richard E. Turley Jr.
(Assistant Church Historian)
Date: November 28, 2010
Location: Västerhaninge Chapel; Stockholm, Sweden.
Transcript updated: 7/17/2013

http://mormonstories.org/wp-content/upl ... m_2010.pdf (this link is dead)

http://www.mormondoctrine.net/wp-conten ... m_2010.pdf (here is a new one)

(I'm not sure if this has been posted or not...)

Note (7-22-2013): I have a source that says they are getting the audio to this. I'll link it here when and if they come through.

Here is the audio... http://www.mediafire.com/download/ot7rh ... -part1.mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/download/xif11 ... -part2.mp3


Download it before it disappears...

Fascinating. Thanks for posting.

Saved, before LDS Inc makes it disappear.

Worked my way through the transcript.
I could really feel the frustration of the Swedes as question after question went unanswered.
Far as I can tell the church leaders traveled 36 hours out of their way to answer the groups questions with:

-We have the answer but we just don't have time to explain
-We're working on it
-I hope to know the answer to that someday

Willy Law wrote:Worked my way through the transcript.
I could really feel the frustration of the Swedes as question after question went unanswered.
Far as I can tell the church leaders traveled 36 hours out of their way to answer the groups questions with:

-We have the answer but we just don't have time to explain
-We're working on it
-I hope to know the answer to that someday

Yup... you could tell some of them were getting irritated.

Wow, at best they regurgitated stuff from common apologetic arguments. In seriousness, why not cut out the middleman and send an apologist instead? These men, allegedly called by God and directed by God have no answers. No special insights. Expect platitudes from them, nothing more.

I have now read the transcript of the meeting held with Richard Turley and Marlin Jensen.
Basically it's them clarifying what the main questions are. That's it. No answers really, just a lot of ducking and diving and a promise to come back with answers.

Then I read the supposed response in which these questions were dealt with in the letter sent in March 2012 (remember the meeting at which they established what the key questions were was 15 months previous). What a joke.

They provide no answers whatsoever.
Just an instruction to read some pro Church websites which carry the disclaimer that they do not represent the official position of the Church and what amounts to "put it on the shelf". Utterly reprehensible. The Church will not succeed in Sweden, not now, not ever. The Church had a chance, and when challenged to be truthful and accurate, was disingenuous and shifty.

Turley and Jensen ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Gods representatives? No chance.

Why did they send historians? Don't the people who have the keys know the history?

harmony wrote:Why did they send historians? Don't the people who have the keys know the history?

They sent the man who said this in 2008....

In a February 25, 2008 press release about the new Church Historian's Press publishing the Joseph Smith Papers, Jensen offered instruction on how to approach church history. He asked for LDS historians to "not be in an apologetic mode, but to be as open, candid and fair about our own history as we can". They should foster a culture of mutual openness with the general historical community. Jensen observed "greater dialogue coming about, less suspicion and a greater openness that is coming to pass".

...who went on, in 2012, to be in apologetic mode, not open, nor candid, nor fair in his letter labelled "The Swedish Rescue".
Shortly before being shoved into the background as an 'emeritus' authority.

Bazooka wrote:

harmony wrote:Why did they send historians? Don't the people who have the keys know the history?

They sent the man who said this in 2008....

In a February 25, 2008 press release about the new Church Historian's Press publishing the Joseph Smith Papers, Jensen offered instruction on how to approach church history. He asked for LDS historians to "not be in an apologetic mode, but to be as open, candid and fair about our own history as we can". They should foster a culture of mutual openness with the general historical community. Jensen observed "greater dialogue coming about, less suspicion and a greater openness that is coming to pass".

...who went on, in 2012, to be in apologetic mode, not open, nor candid, nor fair in his letter labelled "The Swedish Rescue".
Shortly before being shoved into the background as an 'emeritus' authority.

He held no keys. Were the Swedes so unimportant, they weren't worth sending someone who actually held the keys, who is sustained by the members as one who holds the keys?