NO Mormons are not Christian!

[_maklelan]

Good point. I think it also goes back to that old circular argument "the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true."

It's the hermeneutic circle and begging the question all rolled into one. For scripture to interpret scripture you have to first interpret scripture. It's an infinite regression until you acknowledge that one's own interpretation must catalyze the process.

What does "I like you, Betty" mean, by the way?

See 1:16 mark here.

[_jordon3]

Megacles....you say that it goes back to that old circular argument " The Bible is true because the Bible says it true"

I could say the same about Mormonism.

I don't feel by my saying the Bible is the source of truth for Christians that this is that confusing or different from saying it is the foundation of truth for Christians. The Christians I personally know consider the Bible the standard they go to for truth. Be that right or wrong that is what most Christians do. Sorry Megacles I enjoyed the beginnings of conversation with you but it has been ruined...and not by you. Responses to my postings on here could be applied to everything we know about life...so in my opinion most of the responses at their core are circular within themselves . ...Would have been great to sit down face to face in conversation with out the constant interruption from someone I don't trust.

[_maklelan]

Megacles....you say that it goes back to that old circular argument " The Bible is true because the Bible says it true"

I could say the same about Mormonism.

Of course. All faith traditions come down to faith. Circularity is the result of trying to obscure that foundation through hermeneutics. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with people pretending otherwise (as you are doing).

I don't feel by my saying the Bible is the source of truth for Christians that this is that confusing or different from saying it is the foundation of truth for Christians. The Christians I personally know consider the Bible the standard they go to for truth.

And what established it as that standard?

Be that right or wrong that is what most Christians do. Sorry Megacles I enjoyed the beginnings of conversation with you but it has been ruined...and not by you.

I get that a lot.

Responses to my postings on here could be applied to everything we know about life...

True, but we generally don't have people asserting absolute authority over everything we know about life just because they say so.

so in my opinion most of the responses at their core are circular within themselves . ...

I disagree, but make your case. That's the difference between "because I/Jesus/the Bible say(s) so" and "the best conclusion based on the evidence is . . ."

Would have been great to sit down face to face in conversation with out the constant interruption from someone I don't trust.

That's the nature of online discussion boards, and being naïve and dogmatic about religion only exacerbates it.

[Guest]

I don't feel by my saying the Bible is the source of truth for Christians that this is that confusing or different from saying it is the foundation of truth for Christians.

Jason15

Saying

Christians use the Bible and only the Bible as their source of truth

is different from saying is it only the foundation of truth. Foundations are meant to be built upon, like the foundation of a building, for example.

But even your above statement is not correct, is it? Do you adhere to any of the creeds--Nicene creed, for example--that do not come from the Bible? If you believe any of the creeds are found in the Bible, could you show me where?

[_jordon3]

Megales I agree with all the creeds----every last one--- everywhere, I also believe in the easter bunny. For the last time i should never have said Christians use the Bible and only the Bible....even thou most Christians I personally know DO use the Bible as their standard of truth. If they have a question about something they use the Bible as their truth,,,be that right or wrong that is what most Christians I know do...and these are not fundamentalist Christians that some seem to keep harping about. I actually don't even know any fundamentalists other than the ones on Television and in the media.....not that impressed to be honest.
Some how this thread has gone haywire and most likely I am the cause. what my intention was is convey that Mormonism and Christian doctrine are extremely different and that both could not possibly be considered to be Christian. They have a completely opposing view of the nature of God for example. Oh and by foundation...I personally mean the very base or first place to look for truth and that is what most Christians I think as well.

[_SteelHead]

OK I am confused now. Did we conclude that Mormons are the true Christians and that those others claiming to be Christians are actually the bastard illegitimate heirs to the throne claiming primacy, despite lacking a birth certificate and only having a 30% DNA match? Or did we establish that only Catholics have the right to call themselves Christian?

Oh wait. I remember I gave the right and authority to edict and determine who is Christian to Jason.

Jason, what did you pronounce?

[_Megacles]

Megales I agree with all the creeds----every last one--- everywhere, I also believe in the easter bunny.

I see. And where do you stand on Moon inhabitants?

But seriously, Jason15, it looks like you no longer are taking this conversation seriously--really, equating the creeds with the Easter bunny?

For the last time i should never have said Christians use the Bible and only the Bible....even thou most Christians I personally know DO use the Bible as their standard of truth.

I accept your correction.

If they have a question about something they use the Bible as their truth,,,be that right or wrong that is what most Christians I know do

That is what most Mormons that I know do as well.

So we really aren't that different, Jason15. Will you admit that Mormons are, in fact, Christian now?

[_SteelHead]

In retrospect I think we need Tobin to chime in on this. After all he has seen and conversed with god. Tobin is as qualified as Paul of Tarsus being an apostle of the resurrected Jesus.

But nonetheless, I gave Jason the ultimate authority to pronounce upon this subject, so his decision is binding......

[_jordon3]

Megacles there is just something about you that is likeable.....Ijust can't get around that. Nope I am sorry i will not admit that Mormons are Christian....I really wish they were as I like lots of them. You follow a different Jesus entirely than the one that Christians follow. The Christian Jesus is not a created being...that is blasphemy to Christians to say that he is a created being...

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).
Christians have long maintained that Mormonism teaches a Jesus that is different from what the Bible reveals. Of course, the Mormons say that they believe in the same Jesus that originally walked on the earth and is revealed in the Bible. Though they may make this claim, it is up to them to prove it. Especially in light of what Mormonism says about God and Jesus.

In Mormonism, Jesus is a creation, the product of relations between god and his goddess wife who used to be people from another world (McConkie, Bruce, Mormon Doctrine, p. 192, 321, 516, 589). Jesus is the literal spirit brother of the devil and of you and I (McConkie, p. 192, 589). Also, in Mormon theology, God has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22) as does his wife and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit human bodies on earth.

[_Brackite]

Megacles there is just something about you that is likeable.....Ijust can't get around that. Nope I am sorry i will not admit that Mormons are Christian....I really wish they were as I like lots of them. You follow a different Jesus entirely than the one that Christians follow. The Christian Jesus is not a created being...that is blasphemy to Christians to say that he is a created being...

From The Book of Mormon:



2nd Nephi 26:12:

[12] And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;




Mosiah 3:5-10:

[5] For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

[6] And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.

[7] And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

[8] And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

[9] And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

[10] And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.




Mosiah 5:15:

[15] Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.




Helaman 14:12:

[12] And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.