Jason15 wrote:Yes Mr Erotic,,,that would be right...no god not Jesus.....(snip)
Which is why you need to first establish the existence of god before expostulating on which is the real Jesus.
Ever hear of something called the Burden of Proof?
_________________ Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much. --Robert D. Crockett
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I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
I am glad that you decided to come back to this thread!
Jason15 wrote:Thanks Megacles -----with your comment about (no one help, please)...I will add I am not interested in hearing from the talking donkey either.... the talking head. You are a thinking man with the intelligence to voice your thoughts on that in my opinion.
Well, yes Jason15, but I hope you can see the point Maklelan was trying to make: there are things in the Bible that are silly, do not make sense, and seem preposterous. Much like how you think it is hilarious that Joseph Smith speculated that there might be people who live on the moon.
I think there is actually a Greek word for first created. I am sure if that is what Paul intended to convey he would have said so.
Jesus was not created. He existed from eternity along with God the Father.
Maklelan, who reads and writes ancient Greek and Hebrew, has explained this to you multiple times. Why do you not even acknowledge what he has said here? Do you read or write ancient Greek?
So to answer your question No Mormons can not be Christian as they follow a created Christ ....this just for starters. The Christian Christ and the Mormon Christ are completely different, he is not an exalted man for second starters.
My question was: where are the creeds that you follow found in the Bible? This is the third time I have asked with no response.
Mormons are Christian, Jason15. To say otherwise is offensive, even if you do not intend it to be.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
For the Love of God Mr Erotic of course I am not trying to equate the two....what i am saying it is easy for the talking donkey to toss the bigot word around inappropriately and it seems ok with some on here. Although i could make a snide comment about Joseph Smith but won't lol Sometimes Mr Erotic there are things in life you have to just have faith to believe. Perhaps just read the gospels in the Bible and let the HS show you the truth. Just curious what proof do you need to convince you that God exists and would that proof be enough. Even back in the day of Jesus with miracles and all....many believed and many chose not to. That is were the whole faith thing comes into play for Christians.
For the Love of God Mr Erotic of course I am not trying to equate the two....what i am saying it is easy for the talking donkey to toss the bigot word around inappropriately and it seems ok with some on here. Although i could make a snide comment about Joseph Smith but won't lol Sometimes Mr Erotic there are things in life you have to just have faith to believe. Perhaps just read the gospels in the Bible and let the HS show you the truth. Just curious what proof do you need to convince you that God exists and would that proof be enough. Even back in the day of Jesus with miracles and all....many believed and many chose not to. That is were the whole faith thing comes into play for Christians.
Hello Megacles, not sure what happened, I did reply and it didn't show up, I thought I did a point by point. Sorry about that Anyways more Christian denominations and myself follow the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Constaninopolitan Creed and Anthanasian Creed.. Most Christians I know would say the same, but I am sure individuals would have some personal slight variations..... Not sure why this was so important to you
Jason15 wrote:Hello Megacles, not sure what happened, I did reply and it didn't show up, I thought I did a point by point. Sorry about that Anyways more Christian denominations and myself follow the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Constaninopolitan Creed and Anthanasian Creed.. Most Christians I know would say the same, but I am sure individuals would have some personal slight variations..... Not sure why this was so important to you
No worries, Jason15, but that was not my question.
My question was where any of the creeds are found in the Bible.
Megacles you state "Mormons are Christian, Jason15. To say otherwise is offensive, even if you do not intend it to be".
Look Megacles you know I like you as a person...no doubt about that and my intention is not to be offensive, but lets look at it from a different angle.
This is why more and more Christians are saying Mormons are NOT Christian. The fact is more Christians are becoming increasingly aware of Mormon beliefs and how they are in complete conflict with Christian beliefs and doctrine.
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world. It teaches that forgiveness of sins is not by grace alone. It denies the Trinity doctrine which says there is one God in three persons and instead says that there are three separate gods. It does not proclaim that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is "a" god.... etc. Additionally, Mormons have secret temple rituals, even though the rituals have been done away with with the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.
So, Mormons deny these basic Christian doctrines, yet they want to be called Christian because they say they believe in the same Jesus of the Bible, among other things. But when they speak of Jesus, they mean that Jesus is the brother of Satan, and you and I. They teach that we have all been born from god and his goddess wife who both have physical bodies of flesh and bones.
None of this is in the Bible and NONE OF THIS IS BELIEVED BY TRUE CHRISTIANS. But that has not stopped the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from wanting to be called Christian.
So, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrine and claim to be Christian, then I can deny basic Mormon doctrine and be a Mormon. For example, I deny the following Mormon doctrines.
I deny that there are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 163). I deny that the trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). I deny that god is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3). I deny that there is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443). I deny that god is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516.). I deny that god and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3.) I deny that we were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 218; Articles of Faith, p. 174). I deny that Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). I deny that I need a temple (Articles of Faith, p. 138). I deny that I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, p. 424). I deny that the Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461). I deny that good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 81, 92). I deny that my own blood must atone for any of my sins (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 247; see also, vol. 4, p. 53-54, 219-220). THEREFORE, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrines and call themselves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?
Megacles...about the creeds---- yes many in my opinion are very present in the Bible. I am sure many Christians have their own personal views on doctrines that don't pretain to salvation....which when one comes down to it would be the most important one in my opinion I will say thou I have never been a fan of the RC church, although I am sure many members are Christian.....I have always has problems with that church. i have never been RC
Jason15 wrote:Megacles...about the creeds---- yes many in my opinion are very present in the Bible. I am sure many Christians have their own personal views on doctrines that don't pretain to salvation....which when one comes down to it would be the most important one in my opinion I will say thou I have never been a fan of the RC church, although I am sure many members are Christian.....I have always has problems with that church. i have never been RC
Thank you for your reply, Jason15.
So what you are saying is that the material contained in the creeds are present in the Bible.
Where might I find, for example, the Athanasian Creed? Don't tell me you believe in and follow something extra-Biblical?