My irony meter just exploded

[_Nightingale]

Just reread that and sounds a bit preachy. Sorry, as I am in no place to do that and make no judgments. Just seems like the guy is hurting.

I don't think you need to apologize for being compassionate. Swords/ploughshares 'n all that.

[_moksha]

Someone with a good eye for Photoshop should add Brother Peterson to that famous picture of Che Guevara. Let everyone know this former freedom fighter is alive and well carrying on the good fight guerrilla style.

"Institutes? We need no stinkin' Institutes?"

[_ludwigm]

Someone with a good eye for Photoshop should add Brother Peterson to that famous picture of Che Guevara. Let everyone know this former freedom fighter is alive and well carrying on the good fight guerrilla style.

"Institutes? We need no stinkin' Institutes?"

2 Nephi 29:6 ???
A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.

[_Chap]

To be honest I do sympathise with DCP for his feeling about these two pictures:





CAPTION:

As featured in Bruce C. Hafen, “A Disciple’s Life: The Biography of Neal A. Maxwell” (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2002) — At an event for the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative at the Embassy of the Royal Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in Washington DC. From left to right: Elder Neal A. Maxwell of the Council of the Twelve, Ambassador Marwan Muasher, Senator and Mrs. Harry Reid, President Merrill J. Bateman, and, representing what would later become the Maxwell Institute, Professor Daniel C. Peterson

But now:



His blog entry heading does seem appropriate (you have to have read George Orwell's '1984' to get the reference):

Doubleplusungood Unpersons Guilty of Oldthink Never Actually Existed at All

Whatever the reasons for his departure from the MI, that seems a nasty cheap way to do things. (But ... you expected something different? You thought you were working for a nice organization? I admit there is irony there.)

[Tator]

Having the luxury of time to waste this morning, I read DCP's blog entry that he linked to his Eastasia post. I think wheatwoman nailed DPC's problem.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... 1086749794

I'm not a scholar, just a member who loves church history. I read the leaked emails and then read the article by Gregory Smith. I am convinced that the article by Smith was a perfect example of why a change was sought in the leadership at the Maxwell Institute. It sounded like it was written by a bratty, precocious BYU coed, not a scholar who is intelligently defending the faith. As I stated, I'm just a mom out in the midwest. But I read. Your own words make it very clear to me that the change at Maxwell Institute is a good one. I am tired of the defensive, sarcastic, divisive tone that dominates almost everything you people write - and this very article is no different.

The tone of your response is exactly what I expected. I follow and read what you write, Mr. Peterson. I read your articles, I read your responses to other people’s articles, and I read your responses to criticism. It’s astounding to me that a scholar such as you bristles and reacts so swiftly to criticism – any criticism from any person. You become dismissive and overwrought. Even of someone like me – a harmless fuzzball you don’t even know. I responded to your article and the article you referenced by Greg Smith. There was nothing sarcastic in my comment. You can take or leave my opinions, but it seems leaving an opposing opinion is notoriously difficult for you.


I happen to agree with many of the things you and Greg Smith say, but have serious reservations with your and his manner. I don’t live in Utah. I live in Detroit. Where I’m from, Mormons can’t afford to be insulting and dismissive of people who disagree with them. We try our level best to create connections with people we have literally nothing in common with. And when we are attacked publicly or in the newspaper, we don’t respond with sarcasm. We take them a plate of brownies and make peace. As the person in charge at the Maxwell Institute, how could you devote even one ounce of energy to publishing a paper that tears down another member of our church? It doesn’t make a particle of difference what you think of John Dehlin’s politics or his approach to the gospel. The idea of this kind of paper being published at the Maxwell Institute itself is offensive. Would to God that you had only published articles like the ones you referenced.

As an aside, I read “Nephi and his Asherah” over and over and sent to it to my entire extended family. It is one of my very favorite
articles. But, if I thought it was ridiculous and wrote to you saying I thought this, I can’t help wondering how you would respond. That is the issue.

There is a world of difference between sarcasm and criticism. I did criticise Greg Smith's piece. I read it and it sounded to me like it was written by a bratty BYU coed and I said so. I realize you and others completely disagree with my criticism, but do you really not understand the difference?

I'm neither a scholar nor an apologist. I'm a reader who has responded to an article that I think was poorly written. I disagree with the author's conclusions. Attacking me for criticizing the author accomplishes two things - neither of them good for apologetics - it makes the author and editor seem insecure, and it casts a shadow on any other articles they might have in the works. I will probably never read another article by Greg Smith or Daniel Peterson again. It's thoroughly demoralizing to observe their online behavior here and elsewhere on the internet.

As to whether the present Maxwell Institute is better equipped; intelligently defending the faith requires more than just sound scholarship. To be effective, there has to be humility and respectful responses to people who disagree with or criticize your work.

This is what DCP has just never been able to understand. He has become a target and a symbol for what is wrong with the church's (at least former) apologetic tactics because of his thin-skinned inability to let any criticism pass without engaging in a satirical response. Even worse, he engages in these tactics in response to members who aren't trying to criticize so much as to find a way to resolve the truly perplexing and problematic issues facing LDS belief. I always thought it would only take one grandchild of one GA to receive the DCP (or other apologists) treatment online for changes to be made.

Wheatwoman brought out another point I don't think DCP appreciates. Reacting so defensively and sarcastically to any perceived slight makes him look insecure indeed. Scholars who are secure in their process and conclusion don't fly off the handle when criticized. They simply show how they are correct, because they can.

[_beastie]

Whatever the reasons for his departure from the MI, that seems a nasty cheap way to do things. (But ... you expected something different? You thought you were working for a nice organization? I admit there is irony there.)

Sweet irony, brought to you by the same type of folks who tried to erase people like Sidney Rigdon, or erase former teachings and practices. My favorite current example is Droopy's response to critics who dared to assert that people used to chant "pay lay ale" in the temples. Nuh, unh, no they didn't.

[_ludwigm]

As far as I remember, I've commented long ago all of the censored pictures DCP shows.
Jezhov, Trotsky ...
Their end were the hallmarks of communism (=Mormonism).

And THIS COMMENT will be appear after censoring.

...

One hour...
Many hours...
One day...

...discrimination...

[_DrW]

To Wheatwoman (who may soon be dropping in from Detroit);

If there were more members who saw things the way you do, there would be fewer ex-members who see things the way we do.

(Well done on Sic et Non.)

[_Maksutov]

It's fascinating to me how many similarities there are between the Communist parties in the USSR and PROC and the LDS church. Dogma, cult of personality, revisionist history, crazy apologetics, blind faith, worship of the organization, crappy propaganda art, God/the State as raison d'etre. DCP was swimming with Stalinists and didn't evolve fast enough. I'm sure it's all God's will.

[_Sammy Jankins]

lol. the first clue should have been the fact that half of Maxwell himself was missing too.

Who would intentionally crop out half of Maxwell?
Makes me think it could have been accidental.
I apologize if that's what you were already saying. I wasn't sure.