Mormon Think wrote: According to LDS lore, Joseph Smith himself will have some role in the final judgment of our souls. Shortly before he died, Joseph said "no man knows my history; if I hadn't lived it I wouldn't have believed it myself." Well, if even Joseph wouldn't have believed it, then how can anyone blame us for not believing it either? http://mormonthink.com/endpage.htm#whatif
Bill
I know this quotation. And I think that it has a point. The story is unique and without faith, rather difficult to believe. But within that quotation there is a certain truth. What Joseph is saying is that if he did not experience what he experienced he may not have believed it. But he did experience it. Quite a telling quotation.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:However, it will be a real pleasure to see that the church is true when the maker calls us all home. The look on people's faces who bought into the site will be marvelous to behold. Not to mention the organizers of such sites. Most likely they will be with me in the terrestial kingdom. We will have a nice chat there. Or maybe they will be in the terestial kingdom. I would call it a oh crap moment for them.
I wonder what Why Me is going to do when he dies thinking he's at least going to ride in business class for eternity, and he instead finds himself having his heart weighed against a feather by Anubis.
Mormon Think wrote: People wonder what if by some chance the Church is 100% true, and that there is some sort of fantastic explanation for all the historical problems - would God punish those that brought up its problematic history?
Bill
There are also historical problems with the Bible and other religious books too. But you seem to relish stressing historical problems. Here is what we know: we have a book called the Book of Mormon. How did it come about is a debatable point. We also have 12 witnesses to the plates. And we have emma saying that her husband did not write the book and she was in on the translation process. No one denied their testimony of the book, including emma. Also, Joseph and several of the witnesses faced death by firing squad and they were willing to die for their testimony. Something strange about it all...?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
We would ask God to explain the following: •Why doesn't Joseph Smith's translation of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham and the Egyptian papyri match what Egyptologists say they mean? •Why does the Book of Mormon mention so many things that did not exist in the Americas when the Book of Mormon took place such as horses, elephants, wheat, barley, silk, steel, etc.? •Why were we told the Book of Mormon was translated from gold plates that were never used, when Joseph put his face in a hat and looked at a common stone he found while digging a well? •Why did Joseph marry 11 men's wives while they were still married to their husbands?
Bill
We could all be asking many questions. I too can ask questions about he Bible. Why kill so many people when he parted the red sea, allowed the army to go between it and then swallow up the army--killing everyone. Why turn Lots wife to stone or salt. Why kill the man and woman for not paying a correct tithe. Why not have more witnesses to confirm jesus is the christ? Why did it take a return of jesus to get the disciples on board once more? Why write the ten commandments on breakable stone? Why speak from a burning bush?
Questions, questions and questions. However, the Bible tells us to listen to the spirit and to cherish our spiritual experiences when we have prayed etc. Such is a life built on faith. But keep asking questions if it helps your cause.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
We would ask God to explain the following: •Why doesn't Joseph Smith's translation of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham and the Egyptian papyri match what Egyptologists say they mean? •Why does the Book of Mormon mention so many things that did not exist in the Americas when the Book of Mormon took place such as horses, elephants, wheat, barley, silk, steel, etc.? •Why were we told the Book of Mormon was translated from gold plates that were never used, when Joseph put his face in a hat and looked at a common stone he found while digging a well? •Why did Joseph marry 11 men's wives while they were still married to their husbands?
Bill
We could all be asking many questions. I too can ask questions about he Bible. Why kill so many people when he parted the red sea, allowed the army to go between it and then swallow up the army--killing everyone. Why turn Lots wife to stone or salt. Why kill the man and woman for not paying a correct tithe. Why not have more witnesses to confirm jesus is the christ? Why did it take a return of jesus to get the disciples on board once more? Why write the ten commandments on breakable stone? Why speak from a burning bush?
Questions, questions and questions. However, the Bible tells us to listen to the spirit and to cherish our spiritual experiences when we have prayed etc. Such is a life built on faith. But keep asking questions if it helps your cause.
Keep on asking those questions, Whyme. You're starting to make sense.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
bcuzbcuz wrote: Keep on asking those questions, Whyme. You're starting to make sense.
Interestingly, such questions have been asked for a very long time. If I go back to Karl Marx and the Young Hegelians I can see the same questions. These young people and their professors were rather influential in promoting the atheist line. The Enlightment gave many europeans the opportunity to leave religion and become atheists based on a questioning process.
Then we have the death of god movement in the early 1960's. Nothing new now...just a rehash of past times and movements.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:We could all be asking many questions. I too can ask questions about he Bible. Why kill so many people when he parted the red sea, allowed the army to go between it and then swallow up the army--killing everyone. Why turn Lots wife to stone or salt. Why kill the man and woman for not paying a correct tithe. Why not have more witnesses to confirm jesus is the christ? Why did it take a return of jesus to get the disciples on board once more? Why write the ten commandments on breakable stone? Why speak from a burning bush?
Questions, questions and questions. However, the Bible tells us to listen to the spirit and to cherish our spiritual experiences when we have prayed etc. Such is a life built on faith. But keep asking questions if it helps your cause.
Keep on asking those questions, Whyme. You're starting to make sense.
I agree. The Bible should be scrutinized as well. I have never said otherwise. Most likely the Bible is largely fiction as well as the Book of Mormon. Maybe you should consider that possibility as well Why me?
Bazooka wrote:I know this may be a technical question...but is I-15 now an anti-mormon thoroughfare?
There is (perhaps) a dilemma now being discussed within the corridors of power in the COB.
Option 1 - ignore the sign and risk our members noticing it and checking out the website. Option 2 - send a letter to be read out over the pulpit next Sunday warning members about it, which also serves in advertising the websites existence to the congregations.
ZelphtheGreat wrote:Debunked? What, history is changed to suit the current liars in charge? We already know that which is why packer and the rest are so nervous.
If you 'faith' is threatened by the full truth, what good is it?
That's exactly what 'faith' is good for: when the facts just seem too cold, brutal and harsh. "Mommy!"
why me wrote: No one denied their testimony of the book,
"She draws him like a gun" (True Grit, the original) That must be your favorite piece of 'hard' evidence as you seem to use it in almost every post. Why is it so hard for you to fathom that a person might take an embarresment with them to the grave? Do you think that Bernie Madoff or Lance Armstrong would have ever fessed up if not caught?
Also, have you ever looked at each case specifically? (I haven't) Did they all have opportunity? For instance, Hyrum was shot dead, therefor, didn't have the chance....for a deathbed confession.