Best Dad Ever

[_honorentheos]

I took my daughter with my wife and a group to see Pearl Jam last night. It was my daughter's first rock concert, and what I'd call her first "real" concert as well.

While waiting for the show to start, a random guy walked by on his way to the hall and stopped to tell my daughter she must have "the best dad ever!" On his way back to his seat he stopped to reaffirm she knew she had the best dad in the world, along with a "Good job, dad!"

Setting aside the obvious hyperbole or questionable validity of the comment, it's left me to reflect on how I was raised versus how I hope to raise my daughter and I'm curious what other's experiences have been with pre-teens and teens going to concerts among other things.

My parents never took me to that kind of show, so for me concert-going was part of finding my own identity. What I think is interesting here is that my parents would probably view going to shows as a childish thing to do while as a teen it was part of "growing up" in my mind. Part of my rationale for taking my daughter was to both share in something I enjoy specifically ("Some people have religion, I have Pearl Jam"), but also model for her what it means to transition into adulthood in appropriate ways.

Another example that comes quickly to mind: When we dine out with friends and she is with us, I'll order a beer or a glass of wine as do most adults who drink in the group. My wife and I have probed this issue a number of times through discussion because, growing up Mormon, drinking period would be considered wrong. But to do it in front of a kid? Simply unthinkable. Part of my thinking, along with that of friends, is that responsible adult behavior should be modeled. Kids learn what it means to be an adult from the adults in their life. This includes responsible drinking. That's not to say we do this at family-oriented events. I'm speaking specifically of times we've gone to dinner and she's been invited along with a group composed primarily of adults. Clearly, there are lines.

I've come to realize that how my parents modeled the transition into adulthood really isn't going to work for me as an example of how we should raise our daughter. It didn't prepare me for becoming a non-Mormon adult, and in retrospect seems to have been based on dividing the adults from the youth rather than demonstrating what it means to mature into adulthood other than demonstrating the straight-laced adult ideal of the lesson manuals.

Adulthood seems to be something Mormon adults still aspire to. Or is it that I haven't learned to put away childish things? I suspect there are those who would see it that way.

With that in mind, I'm curious about other's experiences and thoughts.

Also, just as an aside, it was a great show and I think she had a great time. Of course, when we left she started talking about bands she really likes and wanting to see them in concert...so the torch has been passed.

[_bcspace]

You sound like a beer commercial. If I have a drink in my hand and partake from time to time, I am grown up, I am popular.



Of course she's going to praise you for letting her do the things she wants or peer pressure wants. She's a child after all. But it's childish to seek to be popular with your children at the expense of principles and morals. These things you mention that you think your parents deprived you of do not reflect on adulthood or maturity, they merely reflect on recreational habits the seeking of which in this case I think actually show how immature and irresponsible you are. Your parents showed you the way and your failure now will afflict you and your posterity to come unto the seventh generation.

[_honorentheos]

You sound like a beer commercial. If I have a drink in my hand and partake from time to time, I am grown up, I am popular.



Of course she's going to praise you for letting her do the things she wants or peer pressure wants. She's a child after all. But it's childish to seek to be popular with your children at the expense of principles and morals. These things you mention that you think your parents deprived you of do not reflect on adulthood or maturity, they merely reflect on recreational habits the seeking of which in this case I think actually show how immature and irresponsible you are. Your parents showed you the way and your failure now will afflict you and your posterity to come unto the seventh generation.

I suspected this would be one view.

Of course, it's off on almost every count as it has nothing to do with giving her what she wants. I was going to the show and asked if she'd be interested in coming along. Of our group, there were two active Mormons. It was a Pearl Jam concert. I have no idea what that means to you. But being almost 13, I guess I don't see the big deal in allowing her to be part of the group. Anyway.

More to the point, I think this quote captures exactly what I see as the probable Mormon view of the underlying question:

But it's childish to seek to be popular with your children at the expense of principles and morals.

You've assigned moral judgments that basically says there is no difference between having a beer with a meal as an adult and giving a minor a beer. Or perhaps there is no such thing as responsible drinking behavior.

The more I've reflected on this, the more I've begun to think it has explanatory power. If Mormonism treats adulthood as an ideal like celestial perfection, to be pretended at rather than something to mature into, it might help explain a lot of typical Mormon behaviors.

[_Fence Sitter]

There are no rainbows in black and white thinking.

[Guest]

by the way, BC, this might really chap your hide.

We had a really good discussion this afternoon when she asked me if I thought same sex marriage should be legal. While discussing the fact it was important to understand that both sides see the issue differently and that it isn't really a question of whether or not same sex marriage should be legal of not, but if two people of the same gender can love each other the same way two heterosexual people do, she said something to the effect of, "But wouldn't that make it unconstitutional to tell them they can't get married if it is the same?" Even is she needs to learn a thing or two about the Constitution, it was nice to see her get the big picture point that it isn't an us vs. them issue, but what is true about same-sex attraction.

I'll be pleased if it lasts 7 generations.

[_honorentheos]

There are no rainbows in black and white thinking.

Well said.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Adulthood seems to be something Mormon adults still aspire to. Or is it that I haven't learned to put away childish things? I suspect there are those who would see it that way.

With that in mind, I'm curious about others' experiences and thoughts

I think it's great that you're involved to the degree you are with your kid. Adulthood is inevitable, and the fact that you're in step with your daughter is exactly what she needs. It's the little things they'll remember, be they good or bad, and as long as you continue to do the little things with her that will be the during her formative years.

I also think de-sinnifying a beer or glass of wine is a good thing, too. It's one thing to tie one off around family, and it's another to enjoy the good things of life responsibly. As long as you are aware of the difference and act accordingly she'll model her behavior off yours. So, that's another win.

That said, I'm not sure Mormons are as repressed as some might suggest. I've seen many Mormon mothers and fathers have a great dynamic with their children within context of their religion. Sure they may not do what others do "in the world", but the world hasn't exactly figured everything out, either. In many ways, Mormonism saves a lot of people a lot of grief and gives families the opportunity to lead productive lives unencumbered by addiction/trauma. Sure Mormons miss out on some things, but they gain others... Ideally humans wouldn't require a religious component to achieve that, but it is what it is.

- Doc

[_bcspace]

by the way, BC, this might really chap your hide.

Not really. I accept the parable of the sower. I find it fascinating that my children could possibly teach your children one day and bring them to a knowledge of the truth. Meanwhile, I'll try to have some water sent to cool your tongue...

[_honorentheos]

Meanwhile, I'll try to have some water sent to cool your tongue...

This made me smile, given the context and how the scripture source for the reference more closely parallels the differences in the American political system between social liberals and economic conservatives.

[_honorentheos]

That said, I'm not sure Mormons are as repressed as some might suggest. I've seen many Mormon mothers and fathers have a great dynamic with their children within context of their religion. Sure they may not do what others do "in the world", but the world hasn't exactly figured everything out, either. In many ways, Mormonism saves a lot of people a lot of grief and gives families the opportunity to lead productive lives unencumbered by addiction/trauma. Sure Mormons miss out on some things, but they gain others... Ideally humans wouldn't require a religious component to achieve that, but it is what it is.

- Doc

Very fair points, Dr. Cam.

In many ways, I feel I gained a lot in my upbringing. But I also know my parents weren't the same as every other set of parents and to be honest they were uptight about a lot of things. There was a certain Mormon fundamentalist mindset in my home growing up and my own upbringing certainly influences my view.

OTOH, I can't help but think of the "childish" behavior of the cliché Mormon student ward member. To compare them to, say, the frat party boy might leave one with a more favorable view of the student ward Mormon. But that isn't the only parallel available for comparison.