The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

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_Kishkumen
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The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Kishkumen »

Some time ago, our own Aristotle Smith made the following statement about a new face on the Mopologetic scene, Dr. Ashby D. Boyle II of George Wythe University:

Aristotle Smith wrote:DCP take note, you have seen the future of Mopologetics, and it is Ashby D. Boyle II. It's time to get him on the FARMS payroll and let him loose on writing reviews.


Well, ladies and gents, it seems that DCP or Professor Boyle took notice:

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/book-of-mormon-theology-in-its-secular-context/#more-4495

I have not read this particular piece yet. Truth be told, Dr. Boyle's last outings on the Mormon blog scene did not bode well. For those who so desire, however, I bring this to your notice so that you can give it your full attention.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:39 am, edited 4 times in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Interpreter Ups Its Game

Post by _Kishkumen »

As an issue of side interest, not really related to the post itself, I would also recommend you check out George Wythe University. For a minuscule, unaccredited university that has its roots in the teachings of W. Cleon Skousen, it has received an unusual amount attention.

For example, both Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney participated in a fundraiser for the school. See http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/mitt-romney-video-wythe-glenn-beck-cleon-skousen.

I have to say that the Mother Jones description of the school's history is colorful stuff.

The school was founded in 1992 by Oliver DeMille, along with two other Skousen associates. DeMille is described in a 2007 university catalog as "a popular keynote speaker, writer, and business consultant" who earned a master's degree in "Christian Political Science" and a doctorate in religious education at the unaccredited and now-defunct Coral Ridge Baptist University. In 1992, DeMille published an over-the-top tract, The New World Order: Choosing Between Christ and Satan in the Last Days, in which he and his coauthor wrote:

The term "New World Order" means the same thing today—abolishment of Christianity and the adoption of Satan's plan—whether spoken in lodges and meetings of secret societies or on national television by George Bush and Mikhail Gorbachev. This does not mean that Bush or Gorbachev are Satan-worshippers, but they have accepted his plan—that governments should use force to make people live correctly.

The book also noted:

During the coming year the secret combinations and the governments they control will do a number of things to build a Satanic New World Order. President Bush and many Congressmen, who are controlled by the secret societies, will attempt to further this cause and to continue the curtailment of freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

DeMille's book endorsed an assortment of conservative conspiracy theories, including the notion that the "Establishment" was going to turn the United States into a socialist state, disarm the American military and put it under United Nations control, and merge the country with Mexico, Canada, and other Latin American countries. (According to an official history of GWU, DeMille later considered the publication of this book a mistake.)

In the program for the 2009 Beck-Romney fundraiser, DeMille's welcome message sounded the alarm: "The figurative redcoats are at our door as threats to our liberty, prosperity, and sovereignty are no longer ideological or symbolic, but very real and immediate." One way to preserve liberty, he noted, was to donate to George Wythe University.

The school was established in a hunting lodge in southern Utah purchased by William Doughty, a Skousen devotee who also wanted to create a self-sufficient alternative community for conservatives who believed that the Constitution was being dismantled by the US government. The initial plans called for a center devoted to Skousen and his writings and a constitutional theme park populated by Benjamin Franklin and Patrick Henry impersonators. Skousen and his family donated more than $100,000 and gave their blessing to Doughty's fundraising efforts.

The constitutional utopia never materialized. Doughty came under investigation for allegedly bilking investors and donors out of $1 million. (No further action was ever taken against him.) But George Wythe University held on and continued to advance the work of Skousen, a conspiratorialist in his own right, who advocated extreme views across a wide range of subjects.


Dr. Boyle has quite a job bringing this small school out of the ditch:

George Wythe University has never been accredited, and for most of its history, its leadership has been comprised of people who earned their academic credentials from other unaccredited schools. (Andrew Groft, a recent president whose degrees came from George Wythe, was caught in a prostitution sting shortly after leaving the school.) For years, the school handed out generous "life experience" credits toward a Ph.D. in a host of different specialties. One of the school's most famous doctorate recipients is former Michigan congressman Mark Siljander. He served for a couple of years as a George Wythe trustee and earned a Ph.D. in international business from the school after writing a 10-page dissertation and attending no classes. In 2010, Siljander pleaded guilty to charges he had been an unregistered lobbyist for an Islamic charity with terrorist ties. In his sentencing memo, the Department of Justice labeled George Wythe University a "diploma mill."

Since its inception, the school has suffered financial difficulties. In recent years, it has been plagued with declining enrollment. Shortly before the Beck fundraiser, the university reported that its enrollment was half of what it had been the previous year, with only about 150 students. More recent money troubles have stemmed from ill-advised real estate deals in an effort to build a much larger campus. The high-profile endorsements from Beck and Romney did not do much to place the school on better footing. The gala itself, according to school officials, "failed to net any gains."

GWU has recently closed its doctorate program, and this spring announced that it was abandoning ambitious plans for the new campus. Its main building in Cedar City is for sale, and the school is now operating out of an office suite in Salt Lake City. Enrollment is down to a mere 60 students.

There are conflicting accounts as to how Romney came to endorse George Wythe. Shanon Brooks, a former GWU president and head of the committee that organized the 2009 gala, tells Mother Jones, "I believe that the video was secured via members of his family who had a connection with him." But Andrea Saul, a Romney campaign spokeswoman, says, "Glenn Beck asked Gov. Romney to introduce him, and the governor agreed to do it." By this telling, Romney, as he was eyeing his next presidential bid, endorsed a conspiracy-promoting school of iffy standing to score points with a conspiracy-minded conservative icon—and ended up making common cause with crackpot thinking shunned by the Mormon church and the National Review.


Well, I wish him all the best. Now that he has been published in the peer-reviewed Interpreter, he has one more notch on the old CV belt.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Kishkumen »

Sorry, but I find these tangents into the world of fringe academics too interesting. Evidently, Dr. Einar C. Erickson, a sort of fireside Mormon scholar with an interest in the Dead Sea Scrolls, earned his PhD in Near Eastern Studies at none other than George Wythe University in 1999!

Check this out: http://www.einarerickson.com/content/view/10/28/

He has taught geology at BYU, and off campus courses on religion for BYU. He has taught off campus courses in Geology and Anthropology for the University of Nevada, Reno, where his students found many ancient sites in Nevada areas. He is now following up on these discoveries to provide records and artifact analyses. He taught off campus and Elderhostel programs of Geology and Archaeology for the University of Southern Utah at Cedar City for several years, and for more than 10 years he taught Astronomy, Archaeology and Geology for the off campus and Elderhostel Programs of Dixie College in St. George, Utah. He has been the tour guide for groups from Dixie College Programs to archaeological Sites in Peru, and several to the Yucatan. He was a Teaching Assistant in Geochemistry at the University of Arizona in 1961-1962, and in 1995 lectured for George Wythe College, then teaching Astronomy, Geology and Archaeology. Later, he obtained a Ph.D. from George Wythe in 1999, and has since been a Professor of Science, teaching the same subjects.


The guy purportedly has 24,000 volumes in his library. Whoa.

This guy's a real Indiana Jones:

He had many narrow escapes; he survived three crash landings mostly due to mechanical failures, without any harm, and has recounted many of his miraculous episodes and experiences in his tape The Angel Rafael. He flew to many of the places that he gave his talks and where many of them were taped. In 1982, he became blind in his lerft eye and during a year of preparation, it was finally operated on. Then his site failed in his right eye, but within two years and with some operations, he could see well enough to fly again, but he had sold his last planes, and after 1984 never returned to flying again.


Except that Indiana Jones hated planes.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Kishkumen »

According to the website, it seems that GWU has maintained a political agenda to the present. Read this student's testimonial:

"In [Istanbul], I conferenced with a number of United Nations Delegates, and was successful in promoting the pro-family agenda in an extremely positive manner . . . George Wythe is preparing me and others to change the world."

-Jerami Pack
Zamorano, Honduras


One student made what I can only see as either a foolhardy or incredibly brave decision:

“I left behind a four-year, full-tuition National Merit Scholarship at [a prestigious private university] to come to George Wythe University, and it has changed my life. It’s made the difference between mediocrity and excellence.”

-Leslie Ure Baxter
Blackfoot Idaho
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Sammy Jankins
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Sammy Jankins »

From the article:

What is “not exactly clear” is how we as Mormons can continue to be attacked as not being Christians while other Christian Churches begin to copy and borrow our own distinctive doctrines.


Which Christians and what doctrines have they copied?

Also this isn't really a contradiction or an "either/or" situation. They could borrow some doctrines and teachings and still say Mormons aren't Christians as long as they don't adopt the specific doctrines they believe make Mormons not Christians. It is also not a contradiction if one set of Christians is copying doctrines and another sect accuses Mormons of not being Christians.
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Kishkumen »

In keeping with the ideals of Professor Clayton Christensen of the Harvard Business School, Wythe lists a total of one faculty member on its webpage.

See http://www.gw.edu/about/people/faculty.php

The professor, one Dr. Michael Platt, whose credentials (Harvard, Oxford, Yale) are certainly distinguished, has a philosophy of learning that rather reminds me of certain of Hugh Nibley's critiques:

Roughly speaking, the inquiries I carry forward in teaching, conversing, and writing address three matters: the rivalry of philosophy and poetry, the relation of reason and revelation, and the quarrel of the ancients and the moderns. Among my many superior companions are Montaigne, Homer, Rembrandt, Tolstoy, Pascal, Thomas, Tocqueville, and Lincoln, but also the likes of Haydn, Halifax, Manzoni, Keller, and Cather. Most helpful have been and are: Nietzsche, Plato, the Bible, and Shakespeare, Shakespeare for the longest time.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Kishkumen »

Sammy Jankins wrote:From the article:

What is “not exactly clear” is how we as Mormons can continue to be attacked as not being Christians while other Christian Churches begin to copy and borrow our own distinctive doctrines.


Which Christians and what doctrines have they copied?

Also this isn't really a contradiction or an "either/or" situation. They could borrow some doctrines and teachings and still say Mormons aren't Christians as long as they don't adopt the specific doctrines they believe make Mormons not Christians. It is also not a contradiction if one set of Christians is copying doctrines and another sect accuses Mormons of not being Christians.


Mormons are not Christians only in the creedal sense of Christian. At worst they are heretical Christians, if one accepts creedal Christianity as normative. In any case, Mormonism is a unique interpretation of Christianity with a generous dollop of Hermetic and Masonic influences.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Ashby D Boyle wrote:For example, an outstanding German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann, denounces with us Mormons the very concept of having a “systematic” theology, for example, because it falsifies the Scriptures, which bear no theological Greek distortions. The logic of system wars with the logic of the Scriptures’ narrative.


I'm dumber for having read that. Who in their right mind would let this guy write for them?
_EAllusion
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _EAllusion »

That paper is amazing. I'd take that as exhibit A if I were attempting to demonstrate the MI has little to no standards apart from an apologetic attitude.
_Aristotle Smith
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Re: The Interpreter Fulfills MDB Prophecy

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Kishkumen wrote:Some time ago, our own Aristotle Smith made the following statement about a new face on the Mopologetic scene, Dr. Ashby D. Boyle II of George Wythe University:


To quote Amos, "I am not a prophet, nor am I the son of a prophet."

This is a new record low for Mopologetics. I wrote the statement in jest, as a pure joke. I never thought Daniel C. Peterson, or anyone else at the now defunct FARMS, would ever consider publishing anything written by Ashby D. Boyle. And yet, here they have. It's definitely the same Ashby D. Boyle, though thankfully someone has exercised some editorial oversight to rein in his grammatical errors. Though he still manages to write some truly awful stuff. Allow me to quote one sentence with its associated section heading:

Ashby D. Boyle II wrote:Irenaeus (“I”)

“I” was an early Christian leader who fought ancient secularist heresies of paganism on all fronts.


This is vintage Ashby. As I see them here are the errors with this single sentence:

  • There wasn't such a thing as secularism in ancient times. Indeed, much of Ashby's lament of the woes of latter-day secularism make no sense if there was an ancient secularism, this would all be a "been there and done that" kind of thing.
  • Regarding "secularist heresies", it's a contradiction in terms. Since secularism puts forward no orthodox belief system, then it can't also have heresies, since there is no orthodoxy from which to deviate.
  • Similarly, you can't have a heresy of paganism. A heresy presupposes someone claiming Christianity as their belief system, without that you can't be a heretic. Pagans, since they don't claim to be Christians, can't possibly be heretics.
  • Irenaeus did not engage paganism, but rather Christian gnosticism.
  • Not technically an error, but I consider it to be so stupid, I'll go ahead and call it an error. You really can't type "Irenaeus" Ashby? Why the pathetic use of "I"? Modern computers have a technology called copy and paste if you really are that lazy.

Plus there's also the remarkable lack of self awareness. Does he really think that modern Mormonism's ideas of multiplicity of gods and God the Father being an embodied person would not count as a heresy in Irenaus' book called, appropriately enough, Against Heresies? Not to mention that Ireneaus' main target, gnosticism, also shares a lot of ideas with Mormonism. Even the patron saint of Mopologetics, Hugh Nibley, spilled a lot of ink documenting gnostic beliefs that comported well with Mormon ideas. He probably did this on the assumption that at least aspects of gnosticism go back to an original gospel message preached by Jesus and the early apostles. I'll just add that most scholars of gnosticism see it as being a 2nd century phenomenon and thus too late to be connected with any early Christian preaching.

In any case, it's still rather bizarre to see something written as a joke become reality. Let's hope my jokes about the LDS church returning to polygamy remain jokes.

ETA: Fixed grammatical error. Thank you equality for pointing it out.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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