Bcspace, a question about the flood.

[_SteelHead]

Mg, was is consistently taught in official church publcations? Ensign, conference reports, church lesson manuals, and on LDS.org?

[_Themis]

Depends on who you ask. James E. Talmage, David O. McKay, and John Widstoe would have their POV. Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie would have theirs. This translates into "we don't have all the information", for the definitive answer.

None of these guys went inactive or apostate worrying about it though.

Regards,
MG

Sorry but you and WD both lose. It's even worse that bcspace knows this and you guys don't. The church has always taught it, and in 1998 they had articles in the two first months dealing with it. They both specifically deal with the question of of a global worldwide flood. You may not have to believe it to be a member in good standing, but it is the doctrine of the church.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-flood-and-the-tower-of-babel?lang=eng
http://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/02/noah-the-great-preacher-of-righteousness?lang=eng

[_cwald]

Yes. I have to give BC credit. At lest he has the integrity to admit it.

[_mentalgymnast]

Mg, was is consistently taught in official church publcations? Ensign, conference reports, church lesson manuals, and on LDS.org?

As you know, the history of so called speculative doctrines rides a roller coaster. It is interesting to look at the highs and lows of some of the key words that are used within the context of some of these speculative doctrines. An interesting place to start is:

http://corpus.byu.edu/gc/

Type in Noah. Then try Flood. Play around some more. You'll see that the up and down tracks of the coaster roll with the individuals giving the talks and the decade in which they were given.

Both "Flood" and "Noah" seem to be on the wane in the last few years. There seems to be a "hands off" approach in regards to speculative doctrines that require taking a stand and/or position in reference to scientific findings, etc.

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

Mg, was is consistently taught in official church publcations? Ensign, conference reports, church lesson manuals, and on LDS.org?

As you know, the history of so called speculative doctrines rides a roller coaster. It is interesting to look at the highs and lows of some of the key words that are used within the context of some of these speculative doctrines. An interesting place to start is:

http://corpus.byu.edu/gc/

Type in Noah. Then try Flood. Play around some more. You'll see that the up and down tracks of the coaster roll with the individuals giving the talks and the decade in which they were given.

Both "Flood" and "Noah" seem to be on the wane in the last few years. There seems to be a "hands off" approach in regards to speculative doctrines that require taking a stand and/or position in reference to scientific findings, etc.

Regards,
MG

You already lost. I see you are now going to BYU instead of church materials like manuals and official magazines. I know many active members who don't believe it, but it is current doctrine(not speculative in any way) until the church leaders come out and say different.

[_SteelHead]

Mg,
What has the church consistently taught through the official channels regarding the nature of the flood?

Can you answer the question that was asked?

[_mentalgymnast]

...but it is current doctrine(not speculative in any way) until the church leaders come out and say different.

You think? I respectfully disagree. Now what?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Mg,
What has the church consistently taught through the official channels regarding the nature of the flood?

Can you answer the question that was asked?

I think that the global flood is the bread and butter teaching that the church has taught as the default in the past and up through the Ensign article published a number of years ago where the author said something to the effect that members are "duty bound" to subscribe to the global flood. My growing up in the church was immersed in the Noah and the Ark story with all the animals on the ark floating on the great seas that covered the earth.

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

...but it is current doctrine(not speculative in any way) until the church leaders come out and say different.

You think? I respectfully disagree. Now what?

Regards,
MG

:) We have already backed up what the church teaches. If we are wrong then feel free to back up what you want to believe.

[_SteelHead]

The Book of Moses
The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual, (2000), 3–27
http://lds.org/manual/the-pearl-of-grea ... ah+baptism

The book of Moses may be divided into two major sections: Moses 1, which relates experiences from Moses’ life that are not found in the book of Genesis, and Moses 2–8, which contains the inspired and restored account of events described in the Bible, including the Creation of the earth; the Fall of Adam and Eve; the story of Cain and Abel; the ministry, teachings, and visions of Enoch; and the story of Noah up to the time the Lord decreed the destruction of all flesh by the Flood. At this point, one must return to Genesis 6:14 for a continuation of the scriptural record.

Genesis 6–10; Moses 8
Old Testament Teacher Resource Manual, (2003), 37–39
http://lds.org/manual/old-testament-tea ... ah+baptism

Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote that “from Adam to Noah, like rolling crashes of thunder, each louder than the one before, evil and carnality and wickedness increased until ‘every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually’ [Moses 8:22]” (The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man [1982], 359). At the time of Noah the earth was “filled with violence” and “all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth” (Moses 8:28–29). In an act of mercy for the earth and for future generations, God told Noah: “The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence, and behold I will destroy all flesh from off the earth” (v. 30). Elder John A. Widtsoe, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, taught: “Latter-day Saints look upon the earth as a living organism, one which is gloriously filling ‘the measure of its creation.’ They look upon the flood as a baptism of the earth, symbolizing a cleansing of the impurities of the past, and the beginning of a new life” (Evidences and Reconciliations, arr. G. Homer Durham, 3 vols. in 1 [1960], 127).
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The scriptural account of the Flood uses language similar to that used to describe the Creation. Read Genesis 7:10, 14; 8:17, 20–21; 9:1, 3 and ask students how these verses are similar to verses about the Creation. What additional insights do the similarities between these two accounts provide regarding the purpose of the Flood? The Flood, like baptism, represented a new beginning for the earth.

See the previous references to the baptism by immersion. LDS doctrine teaches of the necessity of baptism by immersion, this has been repeatedly applied referencing the baptism of the Earth being; the whole Earth was under water, "baptized" e.g. immersed.

Genesis 6; Moses 8: Noah's Preaching
Old Testament Seminary Student Study Guide, (2002), 18–19
http://lds.org/manual/old-testament-sem ... ah+baptism

The scriptures speak of two separate times when the Lord would cleanse the earth of wickedness. The first was at the time of Noah (see Genesis 6) and the second will be at the Second Coming. Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:41–43, in the Pearl of Great Price, tells ways those two time periods will be like each other. The biggest difference in the two periods is that the earth was cleansed by water in the days of Noah, and at the Second Coming it will be cleansed by fire. These two events are a type of how we are cleansed by the baptism of water and the baptism of fire—the cleansing of the soul that occurs when we truly receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Genesis 6–9 tells the story of Noah and the Flood. As you read, look for reasons the Lord destroyed the wicked and why destroying them was the best possible thing He could do for the salvation of all His children. Also consider how the days of Noah might be compared to our day—the time before the earth is cleansed by fire.Moses 8 is the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 5:23–6:13, so you will want to read Moses 8 before reading Genesis 6:14–22. Notice that Moses 8 is the last chapter of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price. For the rest of the Old Testament, all references to the Joseph Smith Translation will be in your footnotes or at the back of your Bible (beginning on p. 777)
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Moses 8; Genesis 6—Why the Lord Flooded the Earth

President John Taylor helped explain why the Lord decided to destroy all people on earth except the family of Noah. President Taylor suggested that the world was so wicked that children grew up with no choice but to be wicked. At that point where there is no chance to choose righteousness, sending innocent spirits from heaven to earth is no longer just. Consequently, the Lord destroyed all the wicked and began again with the family of Noah to raise up righteous men and women. “By taking away their earthly existence he prevented them from entailing [give as an inheritance] their sins upon their posterity and degenerating them [making them wicked], and also prevented them from committing further acts of wickedness” (in Journal of Discourses, 19:158–59). If God had not flooded the earth, His great plan could not be fulfilled. Read what Nephi said in 2 Nephi 26:24 about why the Lord acts as He does.

Old Testament Student Manual, Genesis--2 Samuel, "Genesis 1-2---The Creation" Points to Ponder (2-19):

"The Flood and subsequent cataclysms drastically changed the topography and geography of the earth. The descendants of Noah evidently named some rivers, and perhaps other landmarks, after places they had known before the Flood. This theory would explain why rivers in Mesopotamia now bear the names of rivers originally on the American continent. It is also possible that some present river systems are remnants of the antediluvian river systems on the one great continent that existed then."

http://lds.org/search?lang=eng&query=%22global+flood%22

"The Flood and the Tower of Babel," January 1998 Ensign

There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.

Ok, global flood from official sources. Now please provide local flood from an official LDS source.