Guerilla Tactics on War Against T-Shirt Porn

[_mackay11]

Easy to laugh at her tactics, but time will tell if they work or not. If she (and others) keep buying the shirts and returning them, that will disrupt business. And the shirts ARE quite tacky. You liberals aren't saying you support the objectification of women, are you?

I wish I could embed this.

Here's the effect of her stunt:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q= ... 1-m&cmpt=q

[_krose]

I go by the simple dictionary definition of the word. It's not complicated. This material is meant to arouse, that makes it pornographic.

Now go ahead and tell me how you write laws regulating it.

Based on this definition, it becomes a thought crime, based on divining the intent of the artist/creator, and whether there was an intention to cause "arousal." That would probably include an image of a face with a smoldering "come-hither" expression.

[_mentalgymnast]

Given that nearly everyone of the the people walking around that very mall could, at the touch of the button on their phones, bring up images much more titillating, even in mere advertising, the shirt images don't even qualify as a drop in the ocean of what surrounds people every day. The line those shirts crossed (and I am not saying that in Orem, they didn't) was blown away a long time ago in that very community by a multitude of other public offerings. You do know there is a Victoria's Secret store in this very mall?

This well known story may find application here:

The Starfish Story


A young man is walking along the ocean and
sees a beach on which thousands and thousands
of starfish have washed ashore. Further along
he sees an old man, walking slowly and
stooping often, picking up one starfish after
another and tossing each one gently into the
ocean.

“Why are you throwing starfish into the
ocean?,” he asks.

“Because the sun is up and the tide is going out
and if I don’t throw them further in they will
die.”

“But, old man, don’t you realize there are miles
and miles of beach and starfish all along it!
You can’t possibly save them all, you can’t even
save one-tenth of them. In fact, even if you
work all day, your efforts won’t make any
difference at all.”

The old man listened calmly and then bent
down to pick up another starfish and threw it
into the sea. “It made a difference to that one.”

One person can make a difference. If others jump on board, they may even make a bigger difference.

This quote may also find application in the "why" this mother of a precious son decided to take action:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. (Edmund Burke)

Or might I add, women. Especially when the men aren't willing to step up.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

I'm not sure PacSun has a full legal obligation to issue a refund given the circumstances of the purchase.

We'll have to wait and see. Although I suppose that little tid bit of information may not make it to the newspapers.

MG: you make it sound like 18- & 19-year-old boys are hanging around the Mr. Mac, like it is the place to see and be seen.

No. I'm saying that the Mr. Mac store brings in many young men. Those young men, unless their peripheral vision is damaged or they are walking around with their head in a sack, are more than likely going to be attracted/exposed to the images on the T-shirts in the store across from the location that they are shopping at.

PacSun likely had very little input into where their retail space was located. The circumstantial fact that they are next door to a Mr. Mac is irrelevant.

Not as far as the mother who is the focal point of this story is concerned. If indeed, that is one of the reasons she stepped up and did what she did. It is interesting, nonetheless, that this store (PacSun) ended up at a proximal location in the mall where the highest volume of soon to be missionaries flow through/at.

How is this mom going to ever let her adult son face the future?

By teaching him high standards of morality. Isn't this what she was attempting to do?

You can see this type of "vulgarity", (or worse), nightly, in prime-time, in the privacy of your own living room, IF YOU CHOOSE. She cannot hold his hand forever.

What you're saying is true. It's also a rationalization for doing NOTHING.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Hell, why didn't she advise the manager of the store that she found the material objectionable...

She did.

...and then take it to the Orem City Counsel?[

Sounds like you didn't read the articles in the newspaper having to do with this story.

The decision to buy all the shirts was a pathetic knee-jerk over-reaction...

In your humble opinion.

...but that was made on the fly and sometimes those decisions are easily explained.

Yes they are. The mother may have been fed up with what she perceived to be images that did not fit into the cultural norms of the area in which she lives.

Then she took it a step further and called every media outlet in town to complain.

CFR. I'm thinking that they may have called her. But if you can show otherwise, I'm willing to be corrected on this point.

That is where she crossed the line and turned the story into, "Psycho Mormon Mom, With Adult Son, Claims Obscenity; Buys All Inventory To Prove Point."

Show that she crossed a line of what would be considered to be free speech and exercising her rights to ask for enforcement, or at least follow up of her concerns, as it relates to the decency standards that are within the parameters/practices of community norms and standards.

That what caught the attention of the country's media and that's why people are snickering about the strange Mormons.

I hope there are at least SOME people that are not snickering...even if nowadays they may be in the minority.

Regards,
MG

[Guest]

Given that nearly everyone of the the people walking around that very mall could, at the touch of the button on their phones, bring up images much more titillating, even in mere advertising, the shirt images don't even qualify as a drop in the ocean of what surrounds people every day. The line those shirts crossed (and I am not saying that in Orem, they didn't) was blown away a long time ago in that very community by a multitude of other public offerings. You do know there is a Victoria's Secret store in this very mall?

This well known story may find application here:

The Starfish Story


A young man is walking along the ocean and
sees a beach on which thousands and thousands
of starfish have washed ashore. Further along
he sees an old man, walking slowly and
stooping often, picking up one starfish after
another and tossing each one gently into the
ocean.

“Why are you throwing starfish into the
ocean?,” he asks.

“Because the sun is up and the tide is going out
and if I don’t throw them further in they will
die.”

“But, old man, don’t you realize there are miles
and miles of beach and starfish all along it!
You can’t possibly save them all, you can’t even
save one-tenth of them. In fact, even if you
work all day, your efforts won’t make any
difference at all.”

The old man listened calmly and then bent
down to pick up another starfish and threw it
into the sea. “It made a difference to that one.”

One person can make a difference. If others jump on board, they may even make a bigger difference.

This quote may also find application in the "why" this mother of a precious son decided to take action:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. (Edmund Burke)

Or might I add, women. Especially when the men aren't willing to step up.

Regards,
MG

Hey MG, you seem to keep avoiding the point that she could have made other choices and keep painting her choice as if it was the only available. This is simply not true. I think your analogy fails to take into consideration the effects of her impulsive actions on the overall situation.

If the old man's actions resulted in saving one starfish at the cost of attracting many more to the beach to die, it might be more applicable, but then it would cease to make your point.

By the way, please don't confuse my objections to her action in the mall as a blanket objection to trying to change or impose decency standards in her community or to organize such a movement. I just find that, so far, all she has done has drawn more attention to the very items she wishes to keep from public view. It reminds me a bit of when the movie "I am curious Yellow" came out. The methods used to protest it turned what should have been a terrible obscure movie, by any standard, into a pop culture icon.

[_cognitiveharmony]

This reminds me of the write-up that Runtu did on the church's pornography addiction program. 10 to 1 this lady's son ends up in one of these programs within 5 years from now. Any takers?

[_mentalgymnast]

Easy to laugh at her tactics, but time will tell if they work or not. If she (and others) keep buying the shirts and returning them, that will disrupt business. And the shirts ARE quite tacky. You liberals aren't saying you support the objectification of women, are you?

I wish I could embed this.

Here's the effect of her stunt:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q= ... 1-m&cmpt=q

The problem is, you can't know what the reasons are for that spike. For example, I had never heard of PacSun. When I came across this story in the newspaper I was curious as to what this mother was getting herself all worked up about. I went to the PacSun website and spent a few minutes looking at the T-shirts thinking, at the outset, that this woman was possibly being a bit too sensitive to the images she considered to be pornographic. After looking at the images on the T-shirts I had a much more sympathetic view/outlook on why this mother did what she did.

I'm guessing that there were many other Utah residents that may have had very little, if any, exposure to the PacSun store and the merchandise that they sell. So, many of us went to the website and search engines to find out. I'm guessing, of course we can't know for sure, that there may be many people in Utah, now that they have educated themselves on the topic, that would feel as I do and are sympathetic to the actions that this Orem mother took.

Regards,
MG

[_Fence Sitter]

MG,

If her actions were effective in Utah at removing the shirts and like items (they have 10 PacSun stores) but actually increased the sales of the same shirts through out the US where there are another 600 PacSun stores, would you consider that a good thing or bad or?

[_Markk]

Wherever that line is, this mom felt that it had been crossed. Especially where the PacSun outlet was right across from a Mr. Mac store. Young men preparing to go on missions frequent this area of the mall in large numbers. Her teenage son was with her. The mother in this story could probably care less about profit margins and greater publicity for PacSun. Her only concern was for her own son and the sons of many others that were subjected to what she considered to be inappropriate images for those trying to prepare themselves to be worthy ambassadors for Christ.

It's hard to fault her for that. Way to go Mom! Finally, someone that actually sticks up for their principles in a world where many, including some folks on this thread, are wishy washy and non-commital as to where the "decency" standard(s) should be...or if there should even be any.

Regards,
MG

Well said.