Nightlion wrote: Indeed, Lincoln is revered, albeit serendipitously, as the Patron Saint of Modern Atheism. That sealed with his own blood after the slaughter of 750,000 Americans. He sowed the seeds of the rise of modern atheism by his public recrimination of Providence because both sides prayed to the same God. How could God favor either side in the great conflict?
And a damn good point! People on both sides of many wars pray to the same God to win. That seems a problem.
The Civil War started one year after Charles Darwin published his Origin of the Species. We can trace Satan's cunning manipulation of modern society toward his aim at the Great Provocation that ends our world as we know it.
Tieing the civil war to Darwin is a first I think.
I see spiritual history on this wise: Once the gospel was restored and Joseph dead all hell broke loose in crisis management to make damn sure the actual gospel that gets people raised up to a state of righteousness with the power of Zion was swept up and forgotten in the ensuing world changes. And it was. And it still is. Find me a Mormon who's got it together. I was listening this morning to an Evangelical (?) preacher, teaching like he was Joseph Smith about children being saved in heaven um? _______Jerimiah. I forgot his first name. He was everything you could want in a preacher, just about perfect, but without a clue. It's really sad.
Are you drawing comparisons of how history has treated Lincoln with how it has treated JSJr because they were contemporaries for a time in Illinois?
Not particularly because they were both in Illinois. If Lincoln were jealous of The Prophet and somehow moved things forward to get him killed, I would suspect such might have been uncovered by now. Cunning men might have conspired to grant Nauvoo a magnanimous charter with enough rope to hang Joseph with. Lincoln in the Illinois legislature at the time might be suspect. We can imagine any ambitious man of the day casting a long wary stare on Joseph Smith, and worse once he is running for president.
The more I think on it, the more it bothers me that the image of Lincoln sits as an American Zeus.
Nightlion - scholars have always had access to Lincoln's history - warts and all. Also to me this post doesn't make you anti-lincoln.
Also, scholars, or mom and pop at the dinner table who write or discuss how at times Lincoln dealt with habeas corpus issues or freedom of the press and are critical are not anti-american. They have thoughtful questions about what happened in difficult times.
bcspace wrote:Lincoln did not belong to the one true Church, though he might now.
There is no more one true church than there is a Santa Clause.
Lincoln did not claim God was telling him what to do like start a bank that would succeed but failed, to promise women who married him with exaltation and in at least one case, a girl whom he promised exaltation for the entire family. Lincoln did not have himself ordained King of the world nor did he ever say he had done a better job than Jesus in keeping a church together. The list goes on and on.
I suppose, for cause and sincere gratitude and perfect knowledge of his worth, I shall be the last man standing in our generation to uphold and honor of Joseph Smith. The world be damned. I shall not agree with them one iota. You are wrong about him and led to error by an inordinate consensus of extreme prejudice of tabloid mentality.
karl61 wrote:Nightlion - scholars have always had access to Lincoln's history - warts and all. Also to me this post doesn't make you anti-lincoln.
Also, scholars, or mom and pop at the dinner table who write or discuss how at times Lincoln dealt with habeas corpus issues or freedom of the press and are critical are not anti-american. They have thoughtful questions about what happened in difficult times.
This board is a tough crowd to sell Joseph Smith over/even to Lincoln.
Nightlion wrote:Nobody has been better researched than Abraham Lincoln. All the details are on the table. Yet, he gets all his sins covered because you just do not mess with Lincoln. Johnny Carson always said you cannot tell a Lincoln joke. It always falls flat. He sits in his memorial like a Zeus. I like Lincoln. I love his meekness and great speeches.
Lincoln was great EOS nothing ill is said nor believed of him.
Joseph was great EOS everything ill IS said and believed of him.
I dare say Joseph was the better man. And if he had lived and had became president there never would have been a Civil War. I dare say.
I doubt seriously that Lincoln stalked married women, marrying them while they were still married to their legal husbands; nor did he tell little girls that they'd receive exaltation to godhood if they'd only marry him. Please, at least Lincoln was a man of integrity. Smith was a criminal.
There is no more one true church than there is a Santa Clause.
Lincoln did not claim God was telling him what to do like start a bank that would succeed but failed, to promise women who married him with exaltation and in at least one case, a girl whom he promised exaltation for the entire family. Lincoln did not have himself ordained King of the world nor did he ever say he had done a better job than Jesus in keeping a church together. The list goes on and on.[/quote] I suppose, for cause and sincere gratitude and perfect knowledge of his worth, I shall be the last man standing in our generation to uphold and honor of Joseph Smith. The world be damned. I shall not agree with them one iota. You are wrong about him and led to error by an inordinate consensus of extreme prejudice of tabloid mentality.[/quote]
Response: I dare say, you'll be "upholding" Smith in the depths of hell. Repent from Smith worship and come to Christ.
Nightlion wrote:Nobody has been better researched than Abraham Lincoln. All the details are on the table. Yet, he gets all his sins covered because you just do not mess with Lincoln. Johnny Carson always said you cannot tell a Lincoln joke. It always falls flat. He sits in his memorial like a Zeus. I like Lincoln. I love his meekness and great speeches.
Lincoln was great EOS nothing ill is said nor believed of him.
Joseph was great EOS everything ill IS said and believed of him.
I dare say Joseph was the better man. And if he had lived and had became president there never would have been a Civil War. I dare say.
I doubt seriously that Lincoln stalked married women, marrying them while they were still married to their legal husbands; nor did he tell little girls that they'd receive exaltation to godhood if they'd only marry him. Please, at least Lincoln was a man of integrity. Smith was a criminal.
Funny that nobody in the anti-mormon and exmormon communities really believed such stuff even if they knew about it, but did not take it to heart in a communal confidence until after Warren Jeffs was truly doing worse in real life. That congealed the consensus that has persisted to today. See. Truth in the modern world is only in the consensus. Not what really happened but what most people will believe.
You do not know Joseph's heart and why he sealed people to himself so to carry them into heaven as his backload. They were NOT getting the gospel and continued in condemnation. He might have sealed the entire church to himself as he loved them all so dearly and could not see himself in heaven without those he struggled and suffered so much with in this life. Shut TFU already.