John Dehlin to leave the church?

[Guest]

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[_Saw Skooh]

in their own journey of faith they went into their studies/investigations of LDS history with the desired end of finding the truth and/or defending the church. They were unsuccessful in doing so. They did not meet their desired ends.

I beg to differ. They were successful in that they did, as you say, find the truth. Finding the truth turned out to be something entirely different, often mutually exclusive, from defending the church. And since in most cases I'd bet that the aim of finding the truth was more important than defending the church, they did meet their desired ends.

[_mentalgymnast]

in their own journey of faith they went into their studies/investigations of LDS history with the desired end of finding the truth and/or defending the church. They were unsuccessful in doing so. They did not meet their desired ends.

I beg to differ. They were successful in that they did, as you say, find the truth. Finding the truth turned out to be something entirely different, often mutually exclusive, from defending the church. And since in most cases I'd bet that the aim of finding the truth was more important than defending the church, they did meet their desired ends.

As you say, they may have found truth. But did they find ultimate and overriding Truth? Lower case truths can be found within or alongside a greater Truth. We can look at this or that truth from church history. We can look at a truth from science. But alongside greater truths that have relevance and meaning to our salvation and/or exaltation, do those truths really matter? I'm thinking of the Old Testament story of Esau and Jacob. Would we trade down on our potential progress/blessings for a mess of pottage? If we are short sighted as we focus on looking at/for something immediately attractive but of little value, taken foolishly and carelessly, in exchange for something more distant and perhaps less tangible but immensely more valuable, are we really interested in Truth?

We live in a world of instant gratification, instant knowledge, and instant reinforcement for our ideas, even though they may be faulty/corrupt or incomplete. We live with a historical perspective that comes to us in bits and pieces. Out of context. Corrupted by biographers and biases. There is so much to distrust, or at least we should look at with wariness, as we look at the machinations that result in human knowledge and interpretations of historical events.

Truth as we see it through human investigation IS relative if we put it alongside of what might be considered to be the larger and more important truths.

If you were to ask John Dehlin, point blank, whether he's found "truth", he would more than likely say something fuzzy and non-committal and would probably be able to rip off isolated bits and bytes of truth and falsehood that he has found/realized through his journey of faith into things Mormon. But I would wager that he is probably just as confused/non-committal now as he ever has been as to what, if any, ultimate Truth there is. Mormonism's message, if there is something to it, surpasses and overrides the "mess of pottage". But, indeed, one has to put on high waders to slosh through the flood of lower case "truths" to get to the upper case Truth. And there is a lot of sloshing through muddy waters to get there.

But there are a lot of us that think it's worth it. If you watched the Priesthood session tonight you saw a small sample of those folks.

Regards,
MG

[_SteelHead]

The sample.... Those who think a burning of the bosom is actually a witness to truth.



Sigh.

[_mentalgymnast]

The sample.... Those who think a burning of the bosom is actually a witness to truth.
Sigh.

Reductionist.

You would like us to think that these guys are all a bunch of dodo's. Elder Holland already disabused you of that notion didn't he?

What's with the shrink wrapping of everything into a nice little package that you can throw out there as a little teeny weeny sound bite and hope to convince others through your wit and incisive commentary?

Regards,
MG

[_psychedelicately]

Throughout history there have been cultural agitators who have dared to speak “truth to power”, who stand unafraid, who dare to stand naked, without the filter of anonymity, before that power and expose the raw truth to the world. Luther, Gandhi, King and Chaves come to mind. While the Mormon world is much smaller and the hoped change of little importance in the grand scale of human history it is important to those of us affected.

John’s agitation of the Mormon hierarchy paradigm, his exposure of institutionally directed whitewashing of church history , his spotlighting the churches lack of accountability and transparency, his fearless open questioning of authority completely blindsided Mormonism’s so called prophets, seers and revelators. He caught them completely unprepared in a new world were some random guy from Logan can challenge that authority by starting a podcast that has the audacity to actually ask questions and expect answers.

John became the voice for those within Mormonism’s spire of influence who had no voice; the disaffected, the LDS- LGBQT’s, its feminists and those struggling within mix-religion marriages. He actually gave a damn when the so called Church of Jesus Christ couldn’t care less. Not only was he their voice, he became their therapist, someone who actually “got it” and who understood the struggle within the culture. He was the voice that made us feel that we weren’t crazy after all for questioning the church.

Did he do it perfectly? No. Has he accomplished every change he’s hoped? Of course not…but he has made a difference…how many of us or those who are so quick to criticize him can say that we’ve made a difference on so great a scale within the small closed Mormon society. John has been that voice prodding Mormonism to carve out a small part of their tent for us...to allow for cultural Mormonism to exist side by side with faithful believing Mormons.

I for one will be forever thankful that I found Mormon Stories and John Dehlin that one day some 12 years ago when I was struggling to make sense of the fracture world of Mormonism. John was real, he was unafraid to challenge, to ask the difficult questions and demand truth from power.

Does anyone really think that if not for people like John the church would be making the subtle changes that it is making today? Would woman really be offering prayers in General Conference? Would the church have shifted its stance of homosexuality acknowledging nature over nurture? Would GA’s really be out conducting recue meeting in far flung corners of Mormonism if not for people like John?

John has been the annoying mosquito pestering church authorities, demanding accountability from an institution that demands unquestioning devotion and obedience of it's male hierarchy.

Thank you John…for all you have done for our community I personally wish you peace in where ever your life path takes you.

Cosign this. Thank you John Dehlin, wherever your path takes you.